Anatomical question about the arm...

[richard w]

Hello all.

If I hold out my forearm as if to play the piano am I right in thinking that the flexor muscles are underneath the forearm, and possibly located slightly on the inside? Then, are the extensor muscles on the top of the forearm and possibly slightly on the outside?

Now, lets say I hold my fingers in the relaxed position (as relaxed as I know - ie how the hand holds itself if I hold my arm limp at my side). If I flex say finger 2 or 3 down slightly I should be able to see, or at least feel with the other hand the tensing of a flexor muscle. And there should be no similar movement from the extensor muscles. Is this hypothesis correct?

To further explore the mechanics of the forearm/hand, if one imagines a finger as being a kind of marionette which, instead of strings, is controlled by tendons (stick with me, you've not just migrated to the 'Let's write a story...' thread) it follows that if one tendon pulls on the finger, the finger will in turn pull the other tendon. This other tendon will then pull on its muscle, which should be relaxed. Therefore, to go back to my example from the above paragraph, if any movement is seen in the extensor muscle when the flexor muscle operates it should be a lengthening and flattening, rather than a shortening and fattening. Does this type of movement occur and should it be observable?




Or to put it another way, when I move my fingers what should I see going on in my forearms?


Thanks for any help.




Richard.

[pianonut]

wow!  so much detail.  what you need is a medical journal.  i happened to be in the wcu reference library and was sidetracked by a journal entitled "common medical injuries of concert pianists" or something like that.  i almost abandoned the assigned topic for this journal.  wondering if when you have a good technique, you don't get all these injuries quite so often (or at all).  you aren't trying to flex or extend, maybe, just somewhere in the middle.  i look at my professors hands and they are flatter than mine, but if i tried to do what he does (being older) it would be uncomfortable.  my fingers are slightly more curved (but still flat, if that makes sense).  i can play for 5-6 hours without any sign of fatigue.  i don't play as well as my teacher, but i don't have any tendonitis (and never have, thanks to my current teacher and past teacher).  they always stress relaxation from the neck, shoulders, arms - and good posture.

this may sound strange, but tension probably starts in the neck (from what i am observing of tension).   

[richard w]

this may sound strange, but tension probably starts in the neck (from what i am observing of tension).

Not strange at all. I think you could almost say it was fact that tension starts in the neck.

Over the past couple of weeks, I have been coming to realise that I'm suffering in more or less exactly the same way Xvimbi says he did (in another thread). More or less all day at work I use a computer, and a recent resurgence in my playing (starting about 4 months ago) is now manifesting itself as pain in my arms, especially the right arm, and especially at the wrist. Prolonged mouse usage seems to have resulted in pain in my little finger too.

In the meantime, I've been reading about the Alexander Technique. Although I would have considered myself to be generally relaxed up until now, it now seems clear that I'm actually riddled with tension - permanently! Especially in my neck and shoulders, but also from my jaw to my bowels. Perhaps the first thing I should do is to sort this out. I think possibly I should take some instruction in Alexander Technique.

Meanwhile, I just thought I would try to diagnose exactly what was going on in my arm, as opposed to what should be going on.



Richard.

[pianowelsh]

Might sound random but I am more and more convinced that alot of problems actually begin with incorrect breathing. Think about it when our air flow is restricted we tense up and also it effects the level of fatigue in muscles. I'm thinking out loud but I know the only times i ve experince any mild pain has been when I ve been intent on a new piece and forgotton to breath for a while. It would be interesting to know if any of you older pianists have researched this ?!

[xvimbi]

Richard, I highly recommend the book "What every pianist needs to know about the body" by Thomas Mark. There is also an accompanying video. Also, checkk out www.pianomap.com. I think most of your questions will be answered. The remaining info you can get from anatomy/physiology books or even by googling.

[richard w]

Thanks Xvimbi. I have already got Mark's book - a recent purchase - and have read it. Of course, I need to go back now and learn the techniques but it seems to me that an Alexander Technique teacher would help me to understand the fundamentals of balance and relaxation much faster than I would on my own. In fact much of Mark's book seems to be based on Alexander Technique, or at least uses it as a point of departure. I've not got Mark's video though.