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18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion (Read 694 times)

Offline joe000

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18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
« on: July 14, 2021, 05:26:20 PM »
New here!

The preliminary round of the chopin competition is FINALLY happening! I've waited a good year for this. What did you guys think of the competitors so far? Any potential people to replace Seong-Jin Cho?

To be honest, all of the competitors so far really disappointed me. Standards nowadays are much lower than the golden age of the past. I know people will hate me for this, but take Kai-Min Chang for example - his hand position is wrong. But maybe I am just old fashioned.  ;D

JOE

Offline anacrusis

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #1 on: July 14, 2021, 11:46:35 PM »
Searched for Kai-Min Chang on YouTube, he plays a fine Op 25 no 6, so I'd say his hand position is fine, or he wouldn't be able to play it :P What do you think is wrong with it?

Offline visitor

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #2 on: July 15, 2021, 12:42:15 AM »
I am only pulling for my boy Hayato, if Mami (ayami) morimoto was competing I'd be rooting for her too but since she's not there, all votes for Hayato



Offline ranjit

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #3 on: July 15, 2021, 05:57:42 AM »
I am only pulling for my boy Hayato, if Mami (ayami) morimoto was competing I'd be rooting for her too but since she's not there, all votes for Hayato



Cateen's a legend haha. I love how distinctive he sounds.

Offline visitor

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #4 on: July 15, 2021, 12:34:18 PM »
Cateen's a legend haha. I love how distinctive he sounds.
definitely
The working definition for virtuosity I like is
Effortless perfect execution of the fundamentals (basics) , partied with uncommon creativity
He is that in spades
How he manages to be as productive as.he is with composign, publishing,  the consistent content production for his digital brand online , his touring, his ability to perform in different genre etc it's the work of  geniuses
Heck just his achievement of having gotten tongue top the ptna pool So young, then manage accepted to Tokyo U (elite of the elite , elective and competitive to enter is for st even begin to correctly describe ), then to perform at level he did there , it's mind boggling , that he is able to be at the level he is in this scene where many others don't do 1/4 if he does , and he can still at times dance circles around them in his own unique sound

Imma fan

Offline visitor

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #5 on: July 15, 2021, 01:29:54 PM »
Cateen's a legend haha. I love how distinctive he sounds.
definitely
The working definition for virtuosity I like is
Effortless perfect execution of the fundamentals (basics) , partied with uncommon creativity
He is that in spades
How he manages to be as productive as.he is with composign, publishing,  the consistent content production for his digital brand online , his touring, his ability to perform in different genre etc it's the work of  geniuses
Heck just his achievement of having gotten tongue top the ptna pool So young, then manage accepted to Tokyo U (elite of the elite , elective and competitive to enter is for st even begin to correctly describe ), then to perform at level he did there , it's mind boggling , that he is able to be at the level he is in this scene where many others don't do 1/4 if he does , and he can still at times dance circles around them in his own unique sound

Imma fan

Offline joe000

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #6 on: July 15, 2021, 02:56:29 PM »
Searched for Kai-Min Chang on YouTube, he plays a fine Op 25 no 6, so I'd say his hand position is fine, or he wouldn't be able to play it :P What do you think is wrong with it?

The 'proper' piano hand is supposed to be perfectly curved, all the knuckles present. At least that's how I was taught. Chang's knuckles (left especially) are collapsed and flat.

Yes, he can play the Op 25 no 6 much better than I will ever play. And yes he has a beautifully matured sound. And I do think he will make it into the next round. But I doubt if he will get into the finales.

If he did, well, that just proves that I am old.  ;D

JOE

Offline lowly_enthuse

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #7 on: July 16, 2021, 11:39:14 PM »
Finally a thread! ;D Some names that stood out (off the top of my head)

Eva Gevorgyan
Hyounglok Choi
Kai-Min Chang
Diana Cooper
Miyu Shindo
Aimi Kobayashi
Yifan Hou

Looking forward to JJ Jun Li Bui, Michelle Candotti, and students of DT e.g Bruce Liu (many of them got far in 2015, eh?)  :P

Offline mjames

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #8 on: July 24, 2021, 12:48:35 PM »
definitely
The working definition for virtuosity I like is
Effortless perfect execution of the fundamentals (basics) , partied with uncommon creativity
He is that in spades
How he manages to be as productive as.he is with composign, publishing,  the consistent content production for his digital brand online , his touring, his ability to perform in different genre etc it's the work of  geniuses
Heck just his achievement of having gotten tongue top the ptna pool So young, then manage accepted to Tokyo U (elite of the elite , elective and competitive to enter is for st even begin to correctly describe ), then to perform at level he did there , it's mind boggling , that he is able to be at the level he is in this scene where many others don't do 1/4 if he does , and he can still at times dance circles around them in his own unique sound

Imma fan

Heard he was pretty nervous during his performance.

RIP

Also, weren't there some members planning on entering the competition? Like Ajlong or NoahJohnson.

Offline margaritas

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #9 on: August 02, 2021, 07:07:06 PM »
The 'proper' piano hand is supposed to be perfectly curved, all the knuckles present. At least that's how I was taught. Chang's knuckles (left especially) are collapsed and flat.

Yes, he can play the Op 25 no 6 much better than I will ever play. And yes he has a beautifully matured sound. And I do think he will make it into the next round. But I doubt if he will get into the finales.

If he did, well, that just proves that I am old.  ;D

JOE

Joe,

Chopin in fact advocated a few unorthodox techniques, including the use of a flat finger for a singing musical effect.  Chopin's pedagogy differed significantly from those of Czerny and Liszt.  Unfortunately, unlike Czerny and Liszt, Chopin did not have great pupils to carry on his tradition.

I quote the following description of Chopin's techniques from Alan Walker's book Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times, chapter titled "Chopin and the Keyboard"; the emphasis was added by me.  The primary source on which Dr. Walker based this description came from Chopin's own unfinished manuscripts titled Sketches Toward a Piano Method:

Quote
Chopinís approach to the keyboard is well documented. He advocated the unrestricted use of the thumb on the black keys, and often used it to strike two adjacent keys simultaneously, much to the dismay of the conservative pedagogues; he would sometimes pass the longer fingers over the shorter ones without the intervention of the thumb if that would secure a better legato; he recommended a flat finger for a singing touch; he employed the organistís favorite device of finger substitution to sustain melodic lines; and he favored a low piano stool, finding it more comfortable than the high one adopted by the hard-hitting virtuosos who liked to descend on everything from a great height.

As you can see, many of these recommendations would be taboo in Czerny's school.  I, too, was trained in Czerny's tradition and was taught that a piano hand should be curved, so I was surprised (and more than a little intrigued) upon discovering the passage above.  The ideas did come from Chopin himself so I gave it a try on a few Chopin pieces.  I'm happy to report that the results were incredible. 

Best,

Margarita S.

Offline pianophile

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #10 on: August 23, 2021, 10:29:14 PM »
Can't Hayato afford a haircut? What's with all the hair, which looks wet? As to the playing, I've not heard very much of his, but googled him and a video of him playing Hungarian Rhapsody #2 came up. I'd say he gets the virtuoso technical stuff pretty much ok, and knows the first part should sound sort of sad, the second part sort of whimsical and ecstatic, but beyond that absolutely NO nuance or sense of poetry, there's nothing Hungarian or gypsy-sounding about it. Hungarian classical music, particularly Liszt's, has this "east-meets-west" quality to it. It fuses a folk music ethos and vitality and intense emotion with urbanity and sophistication. And a sense of spirituality suffusing it all. Hayato seem to think like the Tom and Jerry cartoon featured in the video (whether he or somebody else put that there). It takes more than technique and the intelligence to learn blizzards of notes to make art or music. Sometimes young artists are described as having an "old soul', particularly when they can identify with, or at least connect with, the darker introspective music like late Schubert. The recent Chopin and Leeds prizewinner Mr. Lu (forgot his first name) is like this. He's first rate. Hayato is like a diametrically opposed personality, a very "new soul." The musicianship is a complicated matter, but he could at least get a haircut. Nobody wants to see any "artist personality" affectations like this. All Chopin competition winners btw have had the same haircut: plain neat and trim. Keep the focus on the music.

Offline joe000

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Re: 18th International Chopin Competition And Discussion
«Reply #11 on: August 26, 2021, 04:15:22 PM »
Margarita,
Thank you for the thoughtful response.
I've decided to do a little experiment on this recently by playing every chopin piece with flat fingers. It turns out that some spots such as singing melodies do sound better and damper with such technique. While other places such as big cords sounded rather weak and dull.
I also made some interesting observations -

1. Kai-Ming Chang's left hand is significantly flatter than his right. If he really thought such method of playing would benefit him, I wonder why he didn't apply the same to for both hands.
2. I've also noticed that great pianists such as Zimerman and Argerich all have curved hands from the Czerny school. But they also have a beautiful and fine sound.
3. Horowitz and Helene Grimaud uses the flat hand, and they play at the same level as Zimerman and Argerich. So this must vary from pianist to pianist.

I will dig more into this.  :)

JOE