PIANO and FORTE - Control of hands

[stormx]

My teacher pointed me out that, on many exercices, my left hand is being played too loudly and thus hidening the melodic line played by the right hand. Of course, i agree with him, but find the problem not so easy to solve...

I have serious troubles to control the force of my hands independently. That is, both play LOUD, or both play SOFT. One hand seems to just copy the other...

Is there any useful excercise to address this problem?
(that i beleive must be fairly usual in beginners like me).

Thanks in advance for any help,

[xvimbi]

This is a very common problem. Similar problems are playing legato in one hand while playing staccato in the other, or playing different rhythms. I don't think any special exercises are necessary; just working on pieces should be sufficient to overcome it in the end. Bach is well suited in this respect as he has many pieces, easy ones and difficult ones, where both hands play an equally imortant but independent role. Working on such pieces for a while will definitely boost your technical abilities (in all respects).

[Egghead]

Hi stormx,

the problem sounds all too familiar - I regularly butcher pieces that way.

To me this happens particularly if the LH is technically more demanding than RH - the problem is I mainly concentrate on and listen to the LH!
Having realised this, one solution is to practice LH until it is at least as automatic as RH. I then try to really LISTEN to the RH and shape the melody.

It sometimes helps me to practice HS the LH significantly more quietly than RH: just to get used to the feel. You can of course "drop in RH" notes - it is sometimes easier to maintain a loudness level or articulation already established in one hand and add the other hand (with different loudness etc), then to start off both together.

Once you can do what you want HS, it seems knowing what you want to hear is the most important aspect.

Egghead.

[anda]

playing p or f is a question of arm control. try practicing hs and focusing on how the arm has to feel when you play lh p and rh f. once you become conscient about these sensations, memorize them, and try playing ht focusing on both arms feeling as they did when you played hs.

best luck

[will]

   Try making bigger motions with the side to be played forte.
For example, LH using your arm, drop onto a note from a short distance above the keyboard. The sound created should be soft
Next using RH, drop onto a note from a much higher distance above the keyboard. The sound created should be loud.
Now, still keeping these uneven relative heights as starting point, drop both LH and RH so that they sound together (i.e. RH will need to begin drop before LH) - hopefully LH will be soft and RH will be louder. Once successful and mastered try starting both notes from the same height but depress the keys faster on the side you want louder.
   You can also try playing further down into the keys on the side that is to be louder, while not depressing the keys as far down on the side that is to be softer.

[kilini]

Practice is the key.

And try exaggerating them, e.g. p to ppp and f to fff.

[Bassman]

Quick Way to solve the problem.

Play hands seperate.  Sounds stupid but works.  Play the LH ppp ( soft as possible and still make a sound)  Play the RH FFF and slowly combine your piece 2 measures at a time.  Maybe a line at a time if is going well.

Another quick fix!

Close the lid on your piano.  Place your left hand on the lid and play your LH alone!  Play so soft that you cannot hear your fingers thumping on the lid at all!!!!  Then your RH.  You should be able to hear all of your finger sound a nice hardy THUMP!!!  Nice and Clean.  Then play together on the lid.  Have someone listen. Spouse or friend, ask if they can hear your left hand thumping at all then if they can hear the RH loud enough.

This is a really quick fix for me when I have this problem..  AND I HAVE THIS PROBLEM ALL THE TIME!

-Good Luck and I Hope This Helps

[klick]

I may not be a very good pianist, but I use 2 ways to do this. The first is a lean in to the louder hand with my body. I also tilt my hand to do this to make certain fingers louder to let the melody in certain fingers to be heard louder then the harmony in the same hand.

The other way i do it is if 1 hand is quiet and the other is loud, play the loud hand softer then usual, and just tap the keys of the notes that are quiet. This way my finger's memory remebers the relation, then when i play the loud hand it plays normal, and the soft hand plays nice and soft.

These two methods work for me hope they work for you.


Klick

[stormx]

Still struggling with this, with no progress  
I consider it is one of the BIGGEST chalenges for a beginner  

[nomis]

This is why I dislike the graded piano action. However, almost all pianos have it so we all as students of the piano have to adjust to it!

I was going to write how to do this, but then I found this link from ol' B himself: https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2973.msg25970.html#msg25970

[goose]

I agree that progress comes with playing repertoire but I also created a small exercise to solve the hand independence problem for myself.

Take the first two bars of Bach Invention no.4 and play them simultaneously in both hands (i.e. bars 1-2 RH, and bars 3-4 in LH). Then just cycle them endlessly.

Start legato and play both hands as softly as possible, just enough to make a sound. Gradually increase until both hands are playing fff.

Then, keep the RH loud and try to reduce the LH volume. The effect I strive for is like that of a siren (police/ambulance kind, not the sea nymph kind that tempts sailors to their doom) coming closer and fading away.

I think the trick is to start by keeping one hand constant (could be mf, not fff) and making the other one vary. But eventually you should be able to have each of them growing louder and softer gradually in opposition to each other.

Obviously, there are numerous permutations of how to do this. The same technique would work applied to staccato vs. legato.

Of course, you could do the same exercise playing simple quarter notes and not changing pitch. But the Bach example practise more than one thing at the same time (i.e. smooth sixteenth notes).

When you've done the exercise a while, go straight back to the passage that was causing you problems. I think it will seem easier then.

Best,
Goose

[quantum]

Another method would be to use weight.  Chanelling more weight through the fingers produces louder sound.  Put more wieght on the hand than needs to be lound, and less weight on the hand that needs to be soft.  Remeber you need weight, not tension.  Unnecessary tension in the limbs is not good. 

This has the added advantage of teaching a good Forte sound, as opposed to a harsh one. 

[rlefebvr]

This also gets better with time. It is very important to know your left hand well, so you can concentrate on the right. That simple fact will help play the right hand louder than the left.

A very good and easy exercise is when playing your scales. It's a perfect time to try and play soft one hand and loud the other. This really helped me a lot. Also mixed it up between the hands  and play them from soft to loud and loud to soft. You probably play scales everyday. If you practice them this way, you will get better without if noticing it.

[lostinidlewonder]

When I first learnt about different volumes in music I found it so difficult when for instance I played a piece which went from ppp to pp. How on earth do you feel that physical change?

That is when I focused on this

pppp-Very tips of fingers (means everything that passes this point travelling up the arm and though the body should not have any weight weight causing effect on the finger)

ppp- first knuckles
pp- second knuckles
p- 3rd larger knuckles
mf- inside palm of hand
f- wrist
ff- forearm
fff-arm up to shoulder
ffff-back

To me you are not really playing with these parts of the body, rather visualise the energy flowing like water or electricity from these places. It also helps lots of my students who get confused over how volume should be created. This "constant" factor gives them some confidence.


If your LH is too loud play the RH louder if you can't make the Lh softer. Volume is all a matter of the size of the room you are in. If you are playing way too loud for a small room then this might not be too loud in a hall for instance. So your loud LH might be good, but you have to compensate for it by increasing the volume of the RH.

So for a small room, which you might be getting taught in, the LH is being too loud and the RH is ok, but if you where in a larger room it would be more like it isn't the Lh that is too loud, rather it is the RH that is too soft. So the matter isn't making one hand louder or softer, but training your ear to listen for what needs to be "brought out" in sound and what acts as the support.

[ludwig]

super slow practice, always does the trick. Sometimes I find the communication problem from mind to fingers, and so the hands don't do what I want it to do, this is when I have to concerntrate very hard and to do that, I need time and so I do very slowly, one note at a time, to get the get different dynamics for both hands.... Because the speed isn't a problem later on.