Un Sospiro, measure 51

[jim19130]

A pretty specific question.  I’m almost completely learned Liszt’s Un Sospiro, but measure 51-52 is bedeviling me.  It’s the awkward hand position transition at the ppp.  Maybe it’s just practice more, but if anyone has any advice, I’d take it. 

[lostinidlewonder]

Use 3 on the higher D# (frees the 2 to cross over over the lower D# more easily) then change to a 2 on the upper D# just before you reach up to the C that starts the ppp rather than keep a 3 on it, this will allow you to catch the C more naturally. The 3 written in the score is bad.

531213 repeats then just before the rise up to C play 531212.

In the ppp section the shared D# in both hands is a strong point to maintain positioning, focus on that to keep the hands well behaved, feel the LH 1 and RH 2 sharing the D#. The ascension pattern after adds the sharing of the F#( LH 3 and RH 3 an octave apart but the LH 3 can target the RH 3 as you ascend)

[jim19130]

Wow. I think I know what you mean.   

At the outset, for the beginning of measure 51, I play the first three notes of the first beat in the right   (A, D#, A) with the right (5,3,1)  but then I play the fourth note in the treble (lower d#) with the left thumb, which my teacher suggested.  Then finish the remaining 2 notes of the beat with the right (1,3) going back up.   In that way, you avoid the awkwardness of crossing over. 

My specific question is the fourth beat of measure 51, where the ppp is marked.   

Are you suggesting at the ppp that the fingering with the right hand would be (at the last beat of measure 51, at the ppp) 5,3,1,5,3,1 going down the keyboard and then 2,3,5, 1,2,3,5 going back up?

I tried this.  If it’s this, maybe that would enable my right hand to better reach.  Can you confirm? 

[jim19130]

Or are you saying just use the 3 once on the way down—5,3,1,5,2,1 ?

[lostinidlewonder]

At the outset, for the beginning of measure 51, I play the first three notes of the first beat in the right   (A, D#, A) with the right (5,3,1)  but then I play the fourth note in the treble (lower d#) with the left thumb, which my teacher suggested.  Then finish the remaining 2 notes of the beat with the right (1,3) going back up.   In that way, you avoid the awkwardness of crossing over. 

This is a possibility, there are two problems with this option I feel, one is that the accent in the LH is difficult to honor if you are playing the lower D# with the thumb. Secondly the LH should play 1254, we use 4 so that it is easier to go back up, if you use 3 it pulls the hand down too much by comparison. If the Lh thumb is playing the D# instead of the RH you make the travelling distance of the thumb greater which is no real advantage compared to removing the cross over in the RH.

My specific question is the fourth beat of measure 51, where the ppp is marked.   

Are you suggesting at the ppp that the fingering with the right hand would be (at the last beat of measure 51, at the ppp) 5,3,1,5,3,1 going down the keyboard and then 2,3,5, 1,2,3,5 going back up?

Here RH plays CD#A with 521. I don't understand why 3 would be used on the D# here it is very awkward. You can keep the 2 on the D# all the way even with the ascending pattern in the next bar (which adds the 3 to the F#). Like I said before it is the shared notes in the both hands which are of interest to keep the hands in order for the end of Bar 51 (descending D# common note) and into 52 (ascending D# and F#).

[jim19130]

Thanks so much for your kind response.