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Topic: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff (Read 2665 times)

shostakovich

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Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

on: April 29, 2022, 11:49:34 AM

The faster I play the G major arpeggios, the earlier my wrist will rotate so I can reach another octave in time. However, this causes the 2nd and 3rd fingers (playing B and D respectively) to have their skins on the right sides to be scratched by the wood side of the keys. It gets more uncomfortable as I play faster or for a longer period of time, and the side skins become red, even though they never bleed.

If I play even faster (faster than that in the video), the fingers will feel stuck by the side of the keys, and then as my wrist displaces more the fingers get bounced off from the side of the keys. (It feels like playing glissandos except they are arpeggios) This means I can't play the notes accurately.

But If I play slowly, I can turn my wrist after playing the B or even D note, so the fingers won't scratch the wood side of the keys.

This problem doesn't only exist in arpeggios, but also in any kind of passages that require thumb-turning as wrist rotation is required, e.g. Chopin Op.10 No.1. However, no one has talked about or heard of it. How do I fix it?

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keypeg

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Re: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

Reply #1 on: April 29, 2022, 03:12:15 PM

I can't help directly with the question. However, there is a teaching video out by Zhdanov that's about 30 or so minutes long as I recall, which goes into all kinds of aspects on arpeggios.

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youngpianist

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Re: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

Reply #2 on: April 30, 2022, 09:36:38 PM

Why not just play in the middle of the keys instead of on the edge? You don't need to push your fingers sideways so they scratch against the edge of the next key.

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shostakovich

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Re: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

Reply #3 on: May 01, 2022, 03:16:25 AM

Quote from: youngpianist on April 30, 2022, 09:36:38 PM

Why not just play in the middle of the keys instead of on the edge? You don't need to push your fingers sideways so they scratch against the edge of the next key.

Because I need to turn my wrist in time to play another octave of arpeggios, the fingers get pushed to the edge of the next keys. Do you know a way to play fast arpeggios without the fingers scratching the key sides?

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keypeg

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Re: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

Reply #4 on: May 01, 2022, 05:48:31 AM

Quote from: shostakovich on May 01, 2022, 03:16:25 AM

Because I need to turn my wrist in time to play another octave of arpeggios, the fingers get pushed to the edge of the next keys. Do you know a way to play fast arpeggios without the fingers scratching the key sides?

Have you checked out the resource I mentioned?

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shostakovich

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Re: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

Reply #5 on: May 01, 2022, 07:07:26 AM

Quote from: keypeg on May 01, 2022, 05:48:31 AM

Have you checked out the resource I mentioned?

I am sorry but which video do you refer to? I found a few Zhdanov tutorials on YouTube but they are around 15 mins long only.

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brogers70

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Re: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

Reply #6 on: May 01, 2022, 10:30:53 AM

Is it possible that you are trying to play the arpeggios legato? If so, you may not be getting off the keys fast enough to avoid having the turning wrist pull your fingers onto the edge of the key. It might possibly help to practice them more slowly but with finger staccato so that you get used to not trying to connect the notes and to getting the fingers off the keys as fast as possible. The finger staccato is just a practice tool, not the way you'd play them in the end. At the speed you are playing the arpeggios nobody will notice the lack of connection.

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keypeg

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Re: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

Reply #7 on: May 01, 2022, 04:30:28 PM

Quote from: shostakovich on May 01, 2022, 07:07:26 AM

I am sorry but which video do you refer to? I found a few Zhdanov tutorials on YouTube but they are around 15 mins long only.

This one below: I misremembered the time - it's 19 minutes - it felt longer. Zhdanov starts by showing individual separate movements that we might use, all of which don't work well in isolation (which he also shows), but then he shows a combo of all of them, and adds more advanced things yesterday. Personally, when I watched this I recognized a couple of "isolation" things and lightbulbs went off. You'd be in a different place because you are you.

Another thing I've noticed in general is that if I slow down videos of professionals, they often seem to move within a much greater range of space than I do - like their hands or arms might rise further above the keyboard in their trajectory - and it's always been surprising. The thought occurred to me, something like, what if you are skimming along the surface too much? But I don't have my own arpeggios in order yet which is why I haven't said anything more than suggesting Z's video.

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youngpianist

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Re: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

Reply #8 on: May 01, 2022, 10:30:52 PM

Quote from: shostakovich on May 01, 2022, 03:16:25 AM

Because I need to turn my wrist in time to play another octave of arpeggios, the fingers get pushed to the edge of the next keys.

No you don't. Try not doing that and see if it helps.

Quote

Do you know a way to play fast arpeggios without the fingers scratching the key sides?

Yes, that's how I play all my arpeggios. That's why I'm telling you you don't have to push your fingers into the edge of the next keys. Because I don't have to do that. Just play each note in turn at the center of the key. Let go of the last note before you switch position. Then switch to the new position. Do this fast and it'll sound seamless.

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lelle

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Re: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

Reply #9 on: May 02, 2022, 10:25:34 PM

I agree that you shouldn't have to push your fingers into the edge of the next set of keys. Have you always had this problem?

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pianobern69

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Posts: 13

Re: Scratching side skins of fingers when playing arpeggios-related stuff

Reply #10 on: May 05, 2022, 06:39:41 PM

I hope this suggestion doesn't come off as silly, but because I have a personal distaste for Yamaha pianos, maybe you could check if this problem occurs on other piano brands as well. From my experience I tend to have problems with arpeggios (or fast playing generally) on Yamaha pianos, I'm not sure why that is. This will most likely not be a solution, but maybe you're used to a different keyboard or not used to enough etc.
I personally avoid moving my wrist too much. Look at the way Cziffra plays - he barely moves. He mostly just moves his arms to the side, maybe adopting a similar approach to his helps

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