the most difficult chopin-godowsky studies?

[lenny]

well known as the most difficult music in the entire romantic repertoire, which do you think are the hardest of the hard? and why?

which ones stand out to you?

[musicsdarkangel]

Where can I hear these?

[lenny]

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004S3BF/qid=1108337798/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-8379188-9672968

buy that album, amazing pianistic and musical riches await you

[abe]

The one that combines the Black Keys and Butterfly sounds absolutely impossible. I can't imagine someone playing it at tempo. I don't know if it's the hardest of the set, as I have only heard a few of them...I wish that cd of the etudes played by Hamelin wasn't so expensive...

[orlandopiano]

well known as the most difficult music in the entire romantic repertoire, which do you think are the hardest of the hard? and why?

which ones stand out to you?

They are all insanely difficult. I've played only the A Flat posthumous one (written in E major), and it literally hurt my brain. 

Hamelin's landmark recording is impressive, but I feel Robert Henry plays many of them more musically and he does it LIVE. You can hear a few of them on his website roberthenry.org

[chromatickler]

imo godowsky chickened out in his tempo markings for most of the etudes. for example the lh 10/2 is marked at 116-126 instead of the original's 144. the technique is an almost exact replication of the original's RH component (the held chords are blurred with pedal anyway in most recordings) Provided your LH isnt crippled, there's no reason why you can't at least reach the original tempo. Further more, many virtuosi play the original at 170+, so theoretically this speed should also be possible for the lh transcription.

[shasta]

Op.10 No.2 ("Ignis Fatuus") - tricky for it's ghoulishness and spooky inner voicing

Op.10 No.4 (LH alone) - tricky for LH endurance and voicing, sounds like 2 hands

Op.10 No.9 (1st form Waltz and double notes) - tricky to make it dance

Op.25 no.1 (3rd form with the RH filigree) - tricky for swiftness and gentleness

Op.25 no.2 (Waltz) - tricky for stylishness and flavor

Op.25 no.4 (Polonaise) - my personal fav of them all, tricky to make it simmer

"Badinage" (Butterfly + Black Key) - simply ridiculous

Although never published, Gowdowsky wrote one that combined Op.10 no.2, Op.25 no.4, and Op.25 no.11.   <-- This must have been THE bear to play!!!

[presto agitato]

well known as the most difficult music in the entire romantic repertoire

I totally disagree. Are you sure you know all the romantic piano repetoire?

I dont like those "Remixes". Godowsky is overrated in mi opinion, he was a mediocre pianist and he made his "fame" due to Chopin.

[SteinwayTony]

The Godowsky studies are musical masterpieces and Godowsky was a legendary pianist with some of the best interpretations of Chopin that exist in recordings today.  Presto Agitato, keep listening to the hot new Yundi Li album, but it's not going to get any better.

On another note, I've played the left-hand study on Op. 10 No. 2.  Funny how both the original etude AND the Godowsky study sound simple, but are satanically hard.

[SteinwayTony]

I dont like those "Remixes".

Some "remixes" for Presto Agitato:

- Chopin, Variations on La Ci Darem La Mano, Op. 2
- Rachmaninoff, Flight of the Bumblebee
- Busoni, Chaconne from BWV 1004 (+ numerous Bach works)
- Schubert, Wanderer Fantasy
- Brahms, Variations on a Theme by Haydn
- Liszt, everything he ever wrote

[lenny]

The Godowsky studies are musical masterpieces and Godowsky was a legendary pianist with some of the best interpretations of Chopin that exist in recordings today.  Presto Agitato, keep listening to the hot new Yundi Li album, but it's not going to get any better.

On another note, I've played the left-hand study on Op. 10 No. 2.  Funny how both the original etude AND the Godowsky study sound simple, but are satanically hard.

https://chopinforum.com/~mazeppa/da_random_vid.mpg

i found this, look rather difficult for the left hand 45 fingers!

[SteinwayTony]

https://chopinforum.com/~mazeppa/da_random_vid.mpg

i found this, look rather difficult for the left hand 45 fingers!

Yep, here's one place where Dohnanyi comes in handy... 

[lenny]

I totally disagree. Are you sure you know all the romantic piano repetoire?

I dont like those "Remixes". Godowsky is overrated in mi opinion, he was a mediocre pianist and he made his "fame" due to Chopin.

i know the majority of the mainstream romantic repertoire and quite alot of the non-mainstream(alkan, henselt etc.)

godowsky was a musical genius, his sonata i actually prefer to chopin's sonatas.

[orlandopiano]

I totally disagree. Are you sure you know all the romantic piano repetoire?

And are YOU sure you know these pieces?

I have to agree with the original poster on this. Yes there might be a work here or there that is more difficult than some of the Godowsky.  But as an entire set, it doesn't get harder than these 53 studies.

[Fhugo]

Does anyone have an idea where to find the sheet music to this (specifically the op25 n11)? Just heard it on roberthenry.org and chilled. Are there free editions that are legal?
thanks
fhugo

[chromatickler]

https://chopinforum.com/~mazeppa/da_random_vid.mpg

i found this, look rather difficult for the left hand 45 fingers!

that guy lookz like a comedic genius 

[shasta]

Does anyone have an idea where to find the sheet music to this (specifically the op25 n11)? Just heard it on roberthenry.org and chilled. Are there free editions that are legal?
thanks
fhugo

I don't know about free, but you can purchase the Chopin-Godowsky etudes here:
https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/a/phrase.html?id=69795&phrase=Godowsky

I would also recommend buying a page clip to hold the music open (the book is ~1'' thick).

[SteinwayTony]

that guy lookz like a comedic genius 

He also recorded himself way before he should have.

[liszt1022]

My book of Godowsky Studies is my most prized music score in my collection, along with the Liszt transcription of Berlioz' Symphonie fantastique.

I'd reccomend Carlo Grante's recordings of the studies, he plays very clearly. Hamelin does wonderfully, too. Get both.

[thracozaag]

My book of Godowsky Studies is my most prized music score in my collection, along with the Liszt transcription of Berlioz' Symphonie fantastique.

I'd reccomend Carlo Grante's recordings of the studies, he plays very clearly. Hamelin does wonderfully, too. Get both.

 
 Interesting that someone brings up Grante's name.  He's done some absolutely scary programs!

koji (STSD)

[lenny]

My book of Godowsky Studies is my most prized music score in my collection, along with the Liszt transcription of Berlioz' Symphonie fantastique.

I'd reccomend Carlo Grante's recordings of the studies, he plays very clearly. Hamelin does wonderfully, too. Get both.

yes, they are infinitely fascinating- a veritable textbook of the boundaries of technically possible piano techniques, everything is written so carefully and is actually extremely pianistic.

if you learn the complete chopin-godowsky studies id say you can technically play any pre 20th century music with relative ease.

[Goldberg]

Although never published, Gowdowsky wrote one that combined Op.10 no.2, Op.25 no.4, and Op.25 no.11.   <-- This must have been THE bear to play!!!

It has been done! Hamelin "reconstructed" this piece and published it as his "triple etude", which is, as you can imagine, very close to what the Godowsky score must have been. I've actually got the sheets, but aside from musical difficulties (polyphony and what have you), the piece actually doesn't seem to be THAT hard. At least, that is, in comparison to some of the other ones you listed in the post...and then there's the thirds and sixths etudes which, to me, seem like they'd easily top the charts.

[lenny]

yes, and actually i think its not that good, compared to hamelin's other works, i wonder how good godowsky couldve made it

he actually writes in the introduction that he could have made it ALOT more difficult, which is very interesting!

[chromatickler]

He also recorded himself way before he should have.

i agree with you there. not only is the playing riddled with sloppy technique and random memory lapses, but it's much too sl*w for my liking.

[krenske]

This is ridiculous. They are all really easy.

[shasta]

This is ridiculous. They are all really easy.

Krenske, are you Hamelin?   

[shasta]

and then there's the thirds and sixths etudes which, to me, seem like they'd easily top the charts.

Agreed.  Those and the Winter Wind are equally as ridiculous!

*Thanks for the info on the triple etude.  I'll try to check it out.

[lenny]

the 6th etude godowsky version is actually less 'busy' and complex than the original, however the 6ths are in the left hand this time....this evens it out a tad

[Siberian Husky]

*bump*


anyone have godowsky's chopin etude 25/12...

or know where i can DL it?...

if not then i suppose i must purchase it..or maybe just go all out and puchase the entire set of his chopin etude transcriptions..

thanks in advance

[joell12068]

anyone have godowsky's chopin etude 25/12...

I'll email it to you.

[BoliverAllmon]

Some "remixes" for Presto Agitato:

- Chopin, Variations on La Ci Darem La Mano, Op. 2
- Rachmaninoff, Flight of the Bumblebee
- Busoni, Chaconne from BWV 1004 (+ numerous Bach works)
- Schubert, Wanderer Fantasy
- Brahms, Variations on a Theme by Haydn
- Liszt, everything he ever wrote

LOL there you go

[iumonito]

imo godowsky chickened out in his tempo markings for most of the etudes. for example the lh 10/2 is marked at 116-126 instead of the original's 144. the technique is an almost exact replication of the original's RH component (the held chords are blurred with pedal anyway in most recordings) Provided your LH isnt crippled, there's no reason why you can't at least reach the original tempo. Further more, many virtuosi play the original at 170+, so theoretically this speed should also be possible for the lh transcription.

Knock yourself out and do it.

There are many reasons for slower tempi in the Godowsky arrangements, most of the time the texture is richer and requires more time to listen to, not only to play.  But even if it were true that the texture is comparable, you should take into account that the lower register of the piano is around 3-5 grams heavier the the upper register.

The Chopin tempi, BTW, are arbitrarily fast.  All of those pieces work better musically at Godowsky's speed range, even in original form.

[stevie]