Medtner's Piano Sonatas Ranked by Difficulty

[swilliams002]

I have recently listened to all of Nikolai Medtner's piano sonatas, and I'm wondering if anyone who is more familiar with them can give me an approximate "difficulty ranking" of them, from easiest to hardest. Just from listening to them and watching the scrolling scores on YouTube, it seems to me that the Night Wind and Minacciosa sonatas are the most difficult, but I haven't learned any of them, so I'm interest in a more informed perspective. Thanks!

[ahinton]

I have recently listened to all of Nikolai Medtner's piano sonatas, and I'm wondering if anyone who is more familiar with them can give me an approximate "difficulty ranking" of them, from easiest to hardest. Just from listening to them and watching the scrolling scores on YouTube, it seems to me that the Night Wind and Minacciosa sonatas are the most difficult, but I haven't learned any of them, so I'm interest in a more informed perspective. Thanks!

Difficulty questions are alwasy - er - difficult to answer because what's difficult to one pianist won't be quite the same for others but, that aside, I think you're pretty close here with Night Wind and Minacciosa although I would add Romantica to that shortlist. Night Wind has something of a stamina issue, mental as well as physical, as part of its challenges All that said, however, Medtner's writing for his instrument is so expertly done that this alone helps a little!

[swilliams002]

Difficulty questions are alwasy - er - difficult to answer because what's difficult to one pianist won't be quite the same for others but, that aside, I think you're pretty close here with Night Wind and Minacciosa although I would add Romantica to that shortlist. Night Wind has something of a stamina issue, mental as well as physical, as part of its challenges All that said, however, Medtner's writing for his instrument is so expertly done that this alone helps a little!

Yes, I think ranking Medtner's sonatas by difficulty is tricky, not just because of differences in each pianist's technique, but also I think most of them are relatively close in difficulty. Of course, some are clearly easier than others (e.g. - Idylle is easier than Ballade). But from what I've seen/heard - they seem to have an unusually broad range of technical difficulties, such that the "most difficult" would vary greatly between performers.
The reason I wanted a difficulty ranking was to have an idea of where I should start in learning them. I'll probably learn the last one (Idylle) first, then probably the Sonaten-Triade, which is possibly my favorite group of sonatas ever.

[ahinton]

Yes, I think ranking Medtner's sonatas by difficulty is tricky, not just because of differences in each pianist's technique, but also I think most of them are relatively close in difficulty. Of course, some are clearly easier than others (e.g. - Idylle is easier than Ballade). But from what I've seen/heard - they seem to have an unusually broad range of technical difficulties, such that the "most difficult" would vary greatly between performers.
The reason I wanted a difficulty ranking was to have an idea of where I should start in learning them. I'll probably learn the last one (Idylle) first, then probably the Sonaten-Triade, which is possibly my favorite group of sonatas ever.

That sounds like a very good plan! Good luck with this; the Medtner sonatas are a treasure trove of great piano writing - and if ever you get a chance to get together with a gifted violinist, do try his three sonatas for violin and piano as well!

[swilliams002]

That sounds like a very good plan! Good luck with this; the Medtner sonatas are a treasure trove of great piano writing - and if ever you get a chance to get together with a gifted violinist, do try his three sonatas for violin and piano as well!

His Violin Sonata no. 3 is truly amazing. I would love for the opportunity to play it with a violinist someday. I have yet to listen to his violin sonatas 1-2 yet, but I will very soon. So much great music to listen to and learn!

[ahinton]

His Violin Sonata no. 3 is truly amazing. I would love for the opportunity to play it with a violinist someday. I have yet to listen to his violin sonatas 1-2 yet, but I will very soon. So much great music to listen to and learn!

Yes - and no. 2 is also one of the finest ever written!

[swilliams002]

Yes - and no. 2 is also one of the finest ever written!

I just listened to no. 2 - sublime! I especially love the second movement, with its theme and variations.

[krncandi]

Hands down it's his Night Wind, Minacciosa and Romantica. All exhaustingly difficult to interpret and to endure technique wise

[swilliams002]

Update nine months later - I actually started with the Sonata-Elegy, Op. 11, no. 2 first. Currently learning Op. 11, no. 1 in A-flat (the piece that made me fall in love with Medtner's music) while polishing the Sonata-Elegy.

Here is a recent performance of it that I did at a small venue. It's still rough, but I'm confident I can sort through the difficulties of the coda with some more practice.

My new plan is to learn the Sonata-Triad, then Op. 5. I know, Op. 5 is crazy difficult, but I'm in no rush.

[popicona]

Update nine months later - I actually started with the Sonata-Elegy, Op. 11, no. 2 first. Currently learning Op. 11, no. 1 in A-flat (the piece that made me fall in love with Medtner's music) while polishing the Sonata-Elegy.

Here is a recent performance of it that I did at a small venue. It's still rough, but I'm confident I can sort through the difficulties of the coda with some more practice.

My new plan is to learn the Sonata-Triad, then Op. 5. I know, Op. 5 is crazy difficult, but I'm in no rush.

Great video to me. Thanks

[swilliams002]

Great video to me. Thanks

Thank you! I plan to post my first performances of each sonata here as I learn and perform them.

[hodi]

The Sonata Romantica and the Night Wind sonata are the most difficult ones in my opinion
A wonderful performance of the sonata elegy - which is one of Medtner's most melancholic pieces

[swilliams002]

It's been a while since I last posted, but I just wanted to update this thread to say that I'm set to perform the entire Sonata-Triad, Op.11 this November!

It has been a wonderful journey discovering, learning and performing Medtner's music over the past couple years. I'm still working through the difficulties of Op. 11, especially the sonata in A-flat, which is the most difficult (of the set) in my opinion. But the sheer enjoyment I get from playing Medtner is helping me work through all the difficulties.

[lelle]

As someone who likes a couple of Medtner pieces but has trouble getting into many others, could you share what it is about Medtner's music that grabs you so much?

[swilliams002]

As someone who likes a couple of Medtner pieces but has trouble getting into many others, could you share what it is about Medtner's music that grabs you so much?

Well, as with all things aesthetic, it is difficult to describe in words what I love about Medtner's music, since beauty can't really be captured in words. I could point to the masterful counterpoint or the enchanting melodies (contrary to common opinion, Medtner has great melodies), the programmatic elements (like in some of the Fairy Tales), but ultimately that doesn't get to it. As a pianist, I also appreciate Medtner's skillful piano writing (and he has the courtesy to provide fingerings, unlike Rachmaninoff!). I would recommend listening to the songs if you haven't already. I love poetry, and Medtner is just one of the greatest art song composers out there. The Levental/Peters' album "Incantation" is how I got into the songs, and I've been obsessed ever since.

I'm interested to know, what are the few pieces of Medtner's that you like? Also, which classical music composers in general do you like most? For me, Bach and Beethoven (and to a lesser extent, Brahms) were the composers that I heard most growing up, so they are my favorite composers. I love Medtner because of the similarity (in spirit, I guess) that I hear between him and Beethoven, particularly in their piano sonatas.

[bryfarr]

But does Medtner ramble?   It seems his form / structure could be better thought-through at times.  This is a general overall impression from the sonatas and concertos.  I think his best concerto is the 3rd.
I love the texture of this piano writing.
I've listened to the skazi the most - great pieces, if I were going to start anywhere with Medtner it would be in the some of the easier skazi.

[swilliams002]

But does Medtner ramble?   It seems his form / structure could be better thought-through at times.  This is a general overall impression from the sonatas and concertos.  I think his best concerto is the 3rd.
I love the texture of this piano writing.
I've listened to the skazi the most - great pieces, if I were going to start anywhere with Medtner it would be in the some of the easier skazi.

The skazki are definitely a good place to start with Medtner. (Although in my case, I started with the sonatas, and that's how I became hooked. But I'm just sonata-obsessed, and for whatever reason, I've never been particularly attracted to smaller forms like character pieces.)

I don't know, to me his sonatas seem pretty tight and logical in their form and development. Especially the short sonatas of Op. 11 which I'm learning, but even in his longer ones.

The only sonata that I could see being critiqued as "rambling" is the Night Wind, but that is more focused on embodying the Tyutchev poem that serves as its epigraph, and thus it has a quasi-programmatic/poetic element to its structure which adds a certain level of coherence to the whole. Also, even there in the Night Wind, the first section is pretty recognizable as sonata form I'd say, at least with a few listens. Its the second section, the fantasy, where the "rambling" might seem to come into play.

I agree that the 3rd concerto is his greatest, although I think the 2nd has the clearest form. To me, the 3rd could actually seem rambling if it weren't for, again, the programmatic element (Rusalka).

[swilliams002]

My performance of the entire Sonata-Triad (begins at 14:19), as promised.

Criticisms of my performance are welcome! Although, I doubt anyone will be as critical of it as I am.