About technique...

[SDL]

Ive seen alot of techincal questions on here especially for Chopin etudes.  The best book Ive seen yet on piano technique (the five-finger, scales, & arpeggios; free fall;rotation; thrust; staccato) is Gyorgy Sandor's book "On piano playing".  It has loads of musical examples with markings in of how to approach (esp all the hard chopin etudes Op.10. 1,2,4,5, 7,8 & Op25.1,2,10,11,12).  Its well written in my opinion as this is a difficult subject to put accross.

Incidently there is a book by Abbey Whiteside on piano technique and mastering the chopin etudes but apparently there aren't many examples of these etudes in the book.  From the reviews Ive read she seems quite contraversial Has anyone read this book - what do you think?  Please tell me your findings 

Also does anyone know if Gyorgy Sandor is still alive?  He's a true master! 

[lenny]

last thing i heard, yes he is, and he is ANCIENT.

i found his comments on the art of piano very interesting, and it is evident he is a very knowledgable master.

[will]

Incidently there is a book by Abbey Whiteside on piano technique and mastering the chopin etudes but apparently there aren't many examples of these etudes in the book.  From the reviews Ive read she seems quite contraversial Has anyone read this book - what do you think?  Please tell me your findings 

I have only read 'Mastering the Chopin Etudes and Other Essays' not 'The Indispensables of Piano Playing.' I found the Sandor book much, much more helpful than the Whiteside book. Whiteside's writing style is the opposite of succint - it is all over the place.  I had to constantly re-read sections over and over again to try and comprehend what she was trying to say. Even after repeated readings I am still not sure I have fully understood much of the material. Overall, I have found this book of little use.

[bernhard]

Ive seen alot of techincal questions on here especially for Chopin etudes.  The best book Ive seen yet on piano technique (the five-finger, scales, & arpeggios; free fall;rotation; thrust; staccato) is Gyorgy Sandor's book "On piano playing".  It has loads of musical examples with markings in of how to approach (esp all the hard chopin etudes Op.10. 1,2,4,5, 7,8 & Op25.1,2,10,11,12).  Its well written in my opinion as this is a difficult subject to put accross.

I agree. Technique requires hands on instruction. A video may go a long way, but it is still not perfect. It is a real shame that Sandor’s superlative book does not have an accompanying video. It is really easy to get the completely wrong idea from a written account.

I found these books on technique to be very helpful as well:

Thomas Fielden – The Science of Pianoforte technique. (MacMillan)

Abby Whiteside – On piano playing (Amadeus Press)

Jozsef Gat – The technique of piano playing (Collet’s)

Seymour Fink - Mastering Piano Technique: A Guide for Students, Teachers, and Performers (Amadeus Press) – make sure you get the accompanying video!

Otto Ortmann - The Physiological Mechanics of Piano Technique

Incidently there is a book by Abbey Whiteside on piano technique and mastering the chopin etudes but apparently there aren't many examples of these etudes in the book.  From the reviews Ive read she seems quite contraversial Has anyone read this book - what do you think?  Please tell me your findings   

Will is right and wrong. He is right when he says that Abbey’s writing is convoluted. It is. But then the subject is very difficult to write about. Many things become clear if you replace the word “rhythm” – which she uses all the time without ever defining – by “movement pattern”. It is not exactly what she is hinting at, but it helps (I think) to get closer to what she intends. I think Will is wrong in saying that the book is of little use. It is not. In fact I would say that this book was probably the most influential book in my own technical development. Is it controversial? Perhaps at the time when it was published. Now I would think her ideas are pretty much mainstream (unless one is stuck in early 19th century pedagogy and into Hanon, Czerny and the like, which she – quite rightly – bashes with great gusto). There are some real golden nuggets in the book, but it will take a lot of hard mining to extract them.

Also does anyone know if Gyorgy Sandor is still alive?  He's a true master!   

Sandor is still alive (he is 93! ) and still concertising! Read a review of his recent concert in Singapore here:

https://www.jamesweggreview.org/Reviews_Classical/Singapore_Piano_Festival_2004_Gyorgy_Sandor.htm

And an article on him here:

https://www.jeremycaplan.com/virtuosos.htm

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[lenny]

do you know how old he was when they filmed the art of piano?

he looks much older on that page!

he was actually a pupil of bartok, and i own his complete recordings of bartok's solo works. essential recordings of course.

[will]

I think Will is wrong in saying that the book is of little use.

I was careful in my last post to say that "Overall, I have found this book of little use". I am entirely correct with this statement. 

Bernhard, in your previous posts I recall you saying that the Whiteside books are probably the most influential in helping your technical development. Because of this I haven't been completely turned away from the possiblilty that they may contain some great insights. I haven't read 'The Indispensables of Piano Playing' which I believe contains a broader outline of her ideas on technique than 'Mastering the Chopin Etudes and Other Essays" Is this correct?

[steinwayguy]

I found Abbey Whiteside back in September. I took a week off from practicing, read the Indispensables, and experimented. It revolutionized my technique. You must keep in mind, as I did, that there are almost certainly some elements of your technique that are well-worth keeping. Only change things that need to be changed, which means you don't need to obey everything Abbey Whiteside says. It was a great new light in my career, and without this book, I would still be doing Chopin Opus 10 No. 4 at half tempo.

[SDL]

So to summarise is the best book to get
Abby Whiteside – On piano playing (Amadeus Press)
OR
Mastering chopin studies and other essays ??

I wonder if it is anymore useful than gyorgy Sandors book - I find most of the technique I already do anyway (Ive learnt myself along the way esp with the chopin etudes) apart from the 'free fall' technique which I havent used to a great extent, but instead used more 'thrust'.  Gyorgy Sandor's book has made me more aware of which notational puzzle is solved with which bits of technique in various musical examples whereas before I may have just applied something naturally (not always being aware however of a better way until days later!!).  Im working on getting complete freedom of apparatus (or as gyorgy puts it 'components') so that I can express what I want with ease.  I discovered years ago that virtuosos like Hamelin dont achieve what they do with old style muscle and stamina!

[bernhard]

 I haven't read 'The Indispensables of Piano Playing' which I believe contains a broader outline of her ideas on technique than 'Mastering the Chopin Etudes and Other Essays" Is this correct?

Yes, this is correct. Amadeus Press now publishes both books in one single volume ("On piano Playing" - which confusingly is the same title of Sandor's book), and it come with a huge introduction by two of her pupils, which explain a lot of her peculiar language in understandable terms. I would stronlgy recommend that you buy this new edition rather than the separate "Indispensables".

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

So to summarise is the best book to get
Abby Whiteside – On piano playing (Amadeus Press)
OR
Mastering chopin studies and other essays ??

I wonder if it is anymore useful than gyorgy Sandors book - I find most of the technique I already do anyway (Ive learnt myself along the way esp with the chopin etudes) apart from the 'free fall' technique which I havent used to a great extent, but instead used more 'thrust'.  Gyorgy Sandor's book has made me more aware of which notational puzzle is solved with which bits of technique in various musical examples whereas before I may have just applied something naturally (not always being aware however of a better way until days later!!).  Im working on getting complete freedom of apparatus (or as gyorgy puts it 'components') so that I can express what I want with ease.  I discovered years ago that virtuosos like Hamelin dont achieve what they do with old style muscle and stamina!

I suspect you may find the Sandor book more useful simply because it is better written and better organised. Whiteside's writing is all over the place. At the same time her book is a more "philosophical book" with some very deep insights. Then again there is really no reason to choose. Why not read and investigate both?

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[will]

Yes, this is correct. Amadeus Press now publishes both books in one single volume ("On piano Playing" - which confusingly is the same title of Sandor's book), and it come with a huge introduction by two of her pupils, which explain a lot of her peculiar language in understandable terms. I would stronlgy recommend that you buy this new edition rather than the separate "Indispensables".

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Thanks. I will get the book and report back by bumping this thread later in the year.

[SDL]

I think I will stick to the Sandor Book - almost finished now anyway.  There's only so much you can read without repeating over.  Once Ive mastered fully some of my technical weaknesses with help from this book I feel like I could play anything  !  Its a great book    The good thing is the ease of writing and the wealth of musical examples with indications on how to play and recognise technical "formulas"

[march05]

i like josef lhevinne's "fundamentals of pianoforte playing"... not very detailed, yeah, but there he said things like "poise in music is largely a matter of observing the full note/rest values" which sounds trivial at first but makes more & more sense as time goes by (haha). i'm thinking about brendel's slow movements of mozart concertos.

[IanT]

March - what a great quote from lhevinne!  His book sounds well worth reading.  I'm going to try and find it.

Ian

[rohansahai]

March - what a great quote from lhevinne!  His book sounds well worth reading.  I'm going to try and find it.

Ian

Here's another one: "The finest pedalling is one in which the audience does not realise there is a pedal at all !"