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Topic: Beethoven - Sonata No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10 No. 1 Tempo (Read 3207 times)

rtheunissen

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Beethoven - Sonata No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10 No. 1 Tempo

on: September 01, 2022, 12:58:55 PM

Dear people,

Lately, I've been studying Beethoven's 5th sonata and it's going quite well. However, I don't really know what tempo to play the first movement at. I like the beginning at about 120-160 BPM, but the second page I prefer at a much faster pace. (I know Beethoven wrote "allegro molto e con brio" but that still only gives a certain range, which I don't even know to be completely honest.) My teacher also told me that it's really important to play everything at the same tempo, so no changing it midway through. I like the tempo Barenboim plays it at (on youtube) however, I don't know if that's the "correct" tempo and, like my teacher said, all at the same pace.

What do you guys think? How do you play it?

Thanks in advance.

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bwl_13

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10 No. 1 Tempo

Reply #1 on: September 03, 2022, 07:43:47 PM

There's a quote attributed to Czerny that I find fairly amusing. I'm paraphrasing, but it goes something like 'Beethoven played with the utmost sense of pulse, never wavering, unless of course, the music asked for it'.

I may be butchering this but regardless if this quote is even real, I think it's a good practice to incorporate for playing Beethoven.

I don't know what passage specifically in the Op. 10 No. 1 you're referring to, measure numbers could help. You may be playing the opening too slowly. As you say, molto e con brio. Is 120-160 really con brio? To my ears it's quite stately and the outbursts don't have the same effect. Even Barenboim plays it closer to the standard of about 200.

You might be referring to the second theme. If the Eb Major section drags at 160 (which is does), maybe you should rethink your tempo for the opening. A difference of 40-80 bpm between themes is definitely too drastic for a Beethoven sonata with only one tempo indication.

Subtle tempo changes, agogic (I think that's the spelling?) accents and other expressive devices are acceptable in Beethoven, but I don't think that's the question here. I hope this helps.

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Second Year Undergrad:
Bach BWV 914
Beethoven Op. 58
Reger Op. 24 No. 5
Rachmaninoff Op. 39 No. 3 & No. 5

lelle

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10 No. 1 Tempo

Reply #2 on: September 05, 2022, 08:41:22 PM

Can you give an estimate of what BPM you prefer the second page (the part you liked faster). Because I think you can make a strong argument that 120-160 bpm is too slow for the main theme. It doesn't really give a con brio character when it's mostly quarter notes (with some decoration of course).

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rtheunissen

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10 No. 1 Tempo

Reply #3 on: April 30, 2023, 03:31:09 PM

Hello everyone, it's been a while. I've tried some things out, and have been playing this movement at 165 BPM for the last months. However, since I'm going to be playing it for an audition I want to play it at the 'standard' or 'required' tempo. What should be my tempo for the first movement of this sonata? I've no trouble playing it at up to 200 BPM, so it shouldn't be a problem if my tempo has to go up a drastic amount.

Furthermore, I'm in a bit of a dilemma on the pedaling for the first theme/first page. Should you release the pedal at every rest or staccato or not? I know a lot of pianists do it but I'm not used to it. Getting the right 'con brio' sound while releasing the pedal a lot is tricky, especially not knowing what tempo to play it at.

Lastly, one more question about a different piece but in the same vein. At what tempo would you play Bach's 8th invention? I'm thinking anywhere between 85-100 BPM. I don't want to overdo it, as it will probably sound like I'm rushing it, but showing some technical capabilities might be smart.

Hopefully, someone can help me out, thanks in advance!

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lelle

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Posts: 2528

Re: Beethoven - Sonata No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10 No. 1 Tempo

Reply #4 on: May 01, 2023, 11:23:34 AM

Quote from: rtheunissen on April 30, 2023, 03:31:09 PM

Hello everyone, it's been a while. I've tried some things out, and have been playing this movement at 165 BPM for the last months. However, since I'm going to be playing it for an audition I want to play it at the 'standard' or 'required' tempo. What should be my tempo for the first movement of this sonata? I've no trouble playing it at up to 200 BPM, so it shouldn't be a problem if my tempo has to go up a drastic amount.

I think there being a "standard" or "required" tempo is a misnomer. What's important is that you can make a convincing, stylistically accurate interpretation. With that said, I personally think you should aim for somewhere between 180-200. You have not only allegro or allegro molto, but allegro molto e con brio.

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