Learning improvisation

[lelle]

Hey everyone,

As of late I have felt interested in upgrading my skills at improvising. I do know many classical chord progressions quite well, and have a composition background. However, I'm not very free as an improviser, in the sense that I can't just let my thoughts and feelings flow and have it turn into music I fully enjoy. Since I know there are a number of avid improvisers here I'd like to hear all tips/advice you could give me on practical things I can do to improve my improvisation skills - apart from the obvious, which is to sit and improvise a lot Any books/articles you've read that you found helpful are also welcome.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I would suggest:

practising being able to play free ornamental figurations over chord progressions (initially it would be fair enough to view the process as one hand playing figuration, the other progressions, though ideally you want to aim for the roles of the individual hands being interchangeable)

whenever you might feel like the improvisational process is "getting stuck", keep going: play something, anything, and see where it leads you

Additionaly, you might find this video of interest

[ted]

The difficulty here is that Andrew has given you good tips and Ben, Neil, Nicholas and I could provide equally genuine but disparate suggestions.  Put it this way, if you asked how to solve differential equations you would get roughly similar advice from everybody because the issue is objective. However, the musical worldviews and drivers which impel creation are as different as the individuals themselves. About all that can be stated for certain is that you must have at least a reasonable physical technique, some sort of keyboard vocabulary (in the broadest sense of that word, not just note combinations) and a clear idea of which sounds you enjoy and where you would like to go with them. These latter may or may not coincide with any of the musical traditions, that aspect doesn't matter at all. The imperative to create is the most vital requirement though, and the older I get the more I suspect that it comes from a different part of the brain altogether from measurable musical abilities. In fact the older I get the less I seem to know for certain about any of these things and the less able I am to teach anybody anything.

[ranjit]

However, I'm not very free as an improviser, in the sense that I can't just let my thoughts and feelings flow and have it turn into music I fully enjoy.

I don't think this really comes from your skill at improvisation, exactly. I don't think you get better and better at improvisation until the flow comes naturally. Instead, you develop that flow, and improvisation will get better naturally with time anyway. Having that flow in the first place is really important, and in my view, it just comes from a certain "letting go" of the ego and the urge to get everything right, letting go of inhibition and allowing yourself to try to listen carefully, and pay attention to your inner ear. I was able to get that flow to an extent even when my improvisation ability was really poor back in the day. I was just improvising over 2 or 4 chords. The key to the flow is to just let yourself hear and not think about it too much. If I thought too much back then about how I was so poor at improvisation and could only work with a couple simple chords, then that would have totally ruined the flow. In my opinion, it is more of a state of mind to be cultivated than the inevitable end result of having good improvisation ability.

[lelle]

I would suggest:

practising being able to play free ornamental figurations over chord progressions (initially it would be fair enough to view the process as one hand playing figuration, the other progressions, though ideally you want to aim for the roles of the individual hands being interchangeable)

whenever you might feel like the improvisational process is "getting stuck", keep going: play something, anything, and see where it leads you

Additionaly, you might find this video of interest

Thanks! That video was great. She's really good. That's the kinda stuff I can't really do

I know my basic chord progressions and can play I guess cool sounding arpeggios n stuff up n down. I think I struggle with doing interesting melodies together with an accompaniment, while keeping to a time signature and managing the rhythm well and stuff like that. I often feel like my improvisations get stuck and bogged down in repeating patterns that sound nice but don't really go anywhere.

The difficulty here is that Andrew has given you good tips and Ben, Neil, Nicholas and I could provide equally genuine but disparate suggestions.  Put it this way, if you asked how to solve differential equations you would get roughly similar advice from everybody because the issue is objective. However, the musical worldviews and drivers which impel creation are as different as the individuals themselves. About all that can be stated for certain is that you must have at least a reasonable physical technique, some sort of keyboard vocabulary (in the broadest sense of that word, not just note combinations) and a clear idea of which sounds you enjoy and where you would like to go with them. These latter may or may not coincide with any of the musical traditions, that aspect doesn't matter at all. The imperative to create is the most vital requirement though, and the older I get the more I suspect that it comes from a different part of the brain altogether from measurable musical abilities. In fact the older I get the less I seem to know for certain about any of these things and the less able I am to teach anybody anything.

Fascinating, thanks for your input. I have listened to some of your improvisations and admire what you do. I think "where you would like to go" is the part I'm lacking. I can make sounds that sound nice but it ends up being kinda static.

I don't think this really comes from your skill at improvisation, exactly. I don't think you get better and better at improvisation until the flow comes naturally. Instead, you develop that flow, and improvisation will get better naturally with time anyway. Having that flow in the first place is really important, and in my view, it just comes from a certain "letting go" of the ego and the urge to get everything right, letting go of inhibition and allowing yourself to try to listen carefully, and pay attention to your inner ear. I was able to get that flow to an extent even when my improvisation ability was really poor back in the day. I was just improvising over 2 or 4 chords. The key to the flow is to just let yourself hear and not think about it too much. If I thought too much back then about how I was so poor at improvisation and could only work with a couple simple chords, then that would have totally ruined the flow. In my opinion, it is more of a state of mind to be cultivated than the inevitable end result of having good improvisation ability.

I have followed and really admired the progress you have made in your improvisations ranjit so I appreciate the input I can see that I might be inhibited by a desire to make something I think is good enough.

[anacrusis]

What drives you to improvise? It could be worth thinking about why you are not enjoying yourself right now with the, at least in your opinion, limited skills you do have.

[quantum]

IMO one of the essential aspects of improvisation is flow.  It is especially true for those that have spent years working on the foundational aspects of learning to play the instrument, with very little to no improvisational activity.  From my own experience being trained as a classical pianist, there was much emphasis on the details of making the music sound "proper."  Indeed there is much to learn in the craft of playing classical music, but I also think if left unchecked that this proper culture can have a negative impact on a musician's ability to tap into creative flow.  A lot of the study workflow in classical training revolves around taking something, scrutinizing it, and refining it a little at a time.  Rinse and repeat.  Improvisation can at times seem at odds with such a workflow, for a person that has become accustomed to a certain way of working with music and ideas. 

In order to achieve flow, one needs to let go of all those rules.  Let go of the need to play "properly."  For someone that is new to improvisation or reluctant to improvise, achieving flow is more important than following rules.  One has to be able to give oneself the permission to become vulnerable.  As one's ability in flow develops, guidelines can be gradually introduced to provide direction.   IMO rules in improvisation are not about analyzing what is right and wrong, they are tools to give direction towards things such as: style, mood, and evoking specific ideas. 

As for an exercise at the instrument: start with a simple single idea - a note or a chord.  Repeat it, again and again.  When your sense of flow tells you something needs to change, add another note to the first idea.  Don't think about rules or choosing the theoretically correct note.  Be aware of the sound of your instrument, it will tell you what to do next.  Be aware of your sense of flow, it will tell you when and how to move.  Continue in this manner creating an improvisation by adding and subtracting ideas from the current one being played. 


You might find it helpful working with an improvisation mentor to do some guided improvising.  Sometimes one tends to default to familiar techniques when in unfamiliar territory, and the gentle guidance of a teacher can encourage a person to retain focus on an improvisation mindset. 

[quantum]

Resources.

Note, while many of the following reference improvising in a particular style, it is imperative that one first develop the skill to maintain flow. 


Sietze de Vries series on Improvisation.  Even though these are mostly presented on the organ, they are applicable to any keyboard instrument.  The organ world highly values improvisation, so you will find many organ improvisation resources that can be easily transferred to the piano. 

Borogrove.  This entire channel is dedicated to improvisation, mostly in the Baroque style.  The presenter has some rather innovative approaches to the subject.

cedarvillemusic.  Lots of improvisation content on this channel.  Good amount of information on partimento. 

You might enjoy this channel since you are from a composition background.  There is a lot of discussion that bridges theory and the practical application of improvisation.

Derek has a channel focused on improvisation.  There are a few videos of him describing his process.

This channel explores Baroque, Classical and Romantic improvisation styles.

[quantum]

I can make sounds that sound nice but it ends up being kinda static.

Here's a tip.  Think of musical elements in pairs.  Switch between the two pairs to create interest.

For example, say you are doing something with the E minor chord, don't just hammer out the E minor chord, think of a chord to pair with it.  It could be something straight forward as simply B major, or it could be something crazy like G#(b5b911), or it could be a non-tonal cluster.  The point is the E minor chord has a pair.

Even if your intent was to improvise on an E minor drone, keep a pair chord in mind even if you don't physically play it on the keyboard.  Be prepared to play that chord, even if you end up not using it.  Your sense of flow will inform you if you need to use that chord or not.

[ranjit]

I have followed and really admired the progress you have made in your improvisations ranjit so I appreciate the input I can see that I might be inhibited by a desire to make something I think is good enough.

I really appreciate it! You can still see some of my very early improvisations on this site (early 2017), one year into playing the piano. They were very simple, using basic chords, some embellishing ideas and trying to get a melody to flow over them. I had no idea I would be able to develop improvisation to the extent I have now (not to say I'm really good but it's really much better than it used to be). But adding vocabulary is one thing, and relatively easily done. Developing flow is quite another. Maybe practice audiation: listen to pieces, and see if you can get your mind to imagine a melody away from the keyboard. Then see how far you can develop the melody or idea in your mind. This is also what I do when I want to get back into the flow of improvisation.