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Topic: Chopin - Ballade No. 4  (Read 559 times)

Offline chopinsimp

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Chopin - Ballade No. 4
on: January 04, 2023, 11:45:03 PM
I've been working on this piece for roughly 7 months(?), honestly pretty proud of it.
Yes, there's a spot in the middle where I froze for a second but...

I have a couple live competitions/auditions in a few weeks that I'm using this piece for, so I'd appreciate any feedback.

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Offline droprenstein

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Re: Chopin - Ballade No. 4
Reply #1 on: January 05, 2023, 01:01:30 AM
Before I go any further, know that this performance is overall good. My criticisms are mainly pretty minor.

You're rushing most of the piece, starting from the very beginning. Too fast, especially in the more lyrical passages. The opening of the piece is an example of this at a very noticeable level. This is one of your biggest errors.

From 2:51 to 3:18, you should bring out the top line more. Without a grounded top line, it sounds very messy and disoriented.

There's some mistakes(and one complete stop) in the sixths passage. Just practice more(slowly), and it will clear up.

In between that and the coda, it sounded good to me, other than the aforementioned rushing, and a few minor lapses.

You(understandably) fumbled at the coda. Several noticeable wrong notes and lapses of other kinds. Same advice as before. Practice(slowly) more, and the mistakes will eventually smooth themselves out.

Offline chopinsimp

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Re: Chopin - Ballade No. 4
Reply #2 on: January 06, 2023, 01:23:07 AM
Before I go any further, know that this performance is overall good. My criticisms are mainly pretty minor.

You're rushing most of the piece, starting from the very beginning. Too fast, especially in the more lyrical passages. The opening of the piece is an example of this at a very noticeable level. This is one of your biggest errors.

From 2:51 to 3:18, you should bring out the top line more. Without a grounded top line, it sounds very messy and disoriented.

There's some mistakes(and one complete stop) in the sixths passage. Just practice more(slowly), and it will clear up.

In between that and the coda, it sounded good to me, other than the aforementioned rushing, and a few minor lapses.

You(understandably) fumbled at the coda. Several noticeable wrong notes and lapses of other kinds. Same advice as before. Practice(slowly) more, and the mistakes will eventually smooth themselves out.

Thank you for the feedback. I'm actually trying to follow Horowitz's edition(link at bottom), mostly due to my teacher's encouragement, and I know his playing is in general much faster than that of today's pianists. I will be slowing down at auditions just to be safe, aiming for an overall time between 10:45-11:00(honestly not that important). I rarely have had a problem with the sixths, that recording was the only time I had a lapsed that part on camera, but I'll be practicing that section a lot(it also has a lot of voicing potential I'm working on bringing out). Again, many thanks for the feedback.

Offline quantum

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Re: Chopin - Ballade No. 4
Reply #3 on: January 09, 2023, 01:59:23 AM
You have a secure technique, and are able to execute the varied technical demands of this piece well.  Any note mistakes or memory lapses are an insignificant occurrence, as you did not draw undue attention to them and maintained flow.  In live performance flow and the ability to adapt to unexpected circumstances is far more important than delivering a note perfect delivery.  In a recording these small things can appear magnified as the performer hears them every time they press play, it is especially true for a recent recording.

One of the things you can work on is phrase shaping and phrase direction.  Just as we use punctuation, emphasis and deemphasis when speaking words, we can also apply the same to musical phrases.  Phrase shaping can add clarity (not just technical clarity, but also a clarity of ideas), and elevate the music from just playing notes on a page to animating and enlivening the ideas the performer wants to project as their interpretation of the music. 

Take care when ending sections with a rit.  Musical pulse does not vanish simply because you want to do a rit.  An unstructured rit can end up sounding like a steam engine that has run out of coal.  The rit needs to fit within the time framework of the music, as well as be appropriate to the acoustics of the performance space and instrument, the rit needs to sound purposeful and proportional. 

There were a couple places where the melodic line was not given the prominent voice.  If you want to highlight secondary inner voices, there is nothing wrong with that, but it needs to sound obvious and intentful.  Chopin adored vocal music and opera, and melody is an extremely important feature of his writing.  It is only appropriate that melody be placed in the foreground in Chopin's music.  Project melody as a singer would. 

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline quantum

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Re: Chopin - Ballade No. 4
Reply #4 on: January 09, 2023, 02:36:03 AM
I'm actually trying to follow Horowitz's edition(link at bottom), mostly due to my teacher's encouragement, and I know his playing is in general much faster than that of today's pianists. I will be slowing down at auditions just to be safe, aiming for an overall time between 10:45-11:00(honestly not that important). I rarely have had a problem with the sixths, that recording was the only time I had a lapsed that part on camera, but I'll be practicing that section a lot(it also has a lot of voicing potential I'm working on bringing out). Again, many thanks for the feedback.



There is a lot more to learn from Horowitz's recording than just overall speed.  Listen to how he projects melody, both in lyrical sections and in fast passage work.  Listen to how a vertical sense of layers and a horizontal sense of line is clearly and consistently maintained.  Listen to how he uses a wide breadth of the piano's tonal gamut to convey an almost orchestral sense of musical dialogue.  Listen to how phrases are given direction.  Listen to how speed isn't just about speed, but is musically purposeful and seamlessly integrates with the overall concept of his interpretation. 

Also don't try to imitate Horowitz verbatim.  Learn from him, take ideas and expand on them, but with the goal of forming your own interpretation of the music.
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline lelle

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Re: Chopin - Ballade No. 4
Reply #5 on: January 09, 2023, 08:37:08 PM
Well done! I think the tempo is fine. I think if you can find some more inner calm and a steadier pulse in some of the sections, you can keep this tempo. Often when things sound "too fast" they sound "hurried" - there is an anxiousness or rushedness to it - which is not the same as playing fast.

Most modern pianists play this piece too slowly IMO.

Offline frodo3

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Re: Chopin - Ballade No. 4
Reply #6 on: January 09, 2023, 09:12:56 PM
Congratulations on a fine performance!  I would just work to clean up the coda a little if possible before performing this.  I would suggest spending at least 50-90% of remaining coda practice time practicing the coda at a slower tempo with control.  However, rather than hold back in the actual performance of the coda, I think you can go for the passionate sound with your fast tempo that you strive for here with the understanding that it will be a bit of a gamble in the actual performance. Good luck!
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