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Topic: Piano Technique and Schumann (Read 4636 times)

visitor

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I know it's the eternal debate , but I know I have avoided the music of Robert Schumann and never played any if his pieces , and I've improved greatly over the years while sparing my ears and avoided boredom

In conclusion, I believe not playing the music of Schumann is good for development of technique and not ruining your taste in good piano music.

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frodo3

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #1 on: January 18, 2023, 03:28:22 AM

Quote from: visitor on January 18, 2023, 03:14:03 AM

I know it's the eternal debate , but I know I have avoided the music of Robert Schumann and never played any if his pieces , and I've improved greatly over the years while sparing my ears and avoided boredom

In conclusion, I believe not playing the music of Schumann is good for development of technique and not ruining your taste in good piano music.

You are excused from playing or listening to Schumann. Nobody is required to play his music to have good technique or to listen to his music in order to enjoy music. His limited influence on other past composers will linger on forever though whether you believe his influence was good or not. This you do not have control over. Maybe Brahms music is better due to Schumann. He studied his music in depth at the fairly early age of 20. Maybe Brahms music is worse due to Schumann. No one will ever know for sure. But his influence will live on forever. .Good luck in your piano practice!

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brogers70

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #2 on: January 18, 2023, 03:21:12 PM

Quote from: visitor on January 18, 2023, 03:14:03 AM

I know it's the eternal debate , but I know I have avoided the music of Robert Schumann and never played any if his pieces , and I've improved greatly over the years while sparing my ears and avoided boredom

In conclusion, I believe not playing the music of Schumann is good for development of technique and not ruining your taste in good piano music.

No reason to play music you don't like. I also pretty much disliked everything I'd heard of Schumann's until I started listening to some of his Lieder, many of which I think are beautiful. After that I came around to liking a (very) few of his piano pieces.

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lostinidlewonder

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #3 on: January 18, 2023, 04:10:32 PM

Have you no soul? Lol. Seriously but, his music is quite nice, the romance for instance has a wonderful technical aesthetic where the thumbs move around together like two lovers.

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frodo3

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #4 on: January 20, 2023, 08:44:22 PM

Op. 133: Gorgeous music that brings tears to my eyes. Written October, 1853 when Brahms met the Schumanns and stayed at their house until December, 1853. Schumann threw himself in the Rhine river soon after Brahms left. He was immediately institutionalized. Clara did not see him again until he was on his death bed 2 years later.

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frodo3

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #5 on: January 21, 2023, 12:41:46 AM

Gesänge Der Frühe Op. 133 - Robert Schumann
Performed here by Andras Schiff – My preferred performance! Found it!

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frodo3

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #6 on: January 22, 2023, 04:42:01 AM

Sorry to bring this up again. I don't want to force Schumann on anyone that does not like his music. Hearing this version a few more times of the first piece that lasts 3 minutes - This is one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written - IT IS SIMPLY GORGEOUS and leaves me in tears.

Jean-Baptiste Fonlupt is the pianist. This will be my last post to this thread.

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lelle

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #7 on: January 25, 2023, 01:17:27 PM

A lot of Schumann's music is a bit dull to me, but I really love the Kinderszenen.

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mjames

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #8 on: January 25, 2023, 05:29:52 PM

Imagine spending your precious limited time on earth learning Schumann's piano music when you could learning Chopin, Liszt, Debussy, Ravel, Rachmaninoff, Beethoven, Schubert, Liadov, Medtner, Scriabin (ie, pianist composers with actual talent) instead?

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lostinidlewonder

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #9 on: January 25, 2023, 05:36:54 PM

Disparaging Schumann really is only an marginalized opinion. If he really was so terrible he would have been forgotten a long time ago, instead he is hailed as being amongst the greatest composers of all time and more people would agree that is correct that do not.

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mjames

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #10 on: January 25, 2023, 06:03:52 PM

German propaganda. In the 1830s-1850s era there was a lack of German superstar composers unlike the preceding eras. I believe the Germans, considering the influence they had on culture back then, artificially hyped up Schumann to place him amongst the true greats of that era (Liszt, Chopin, Berlioz etc.) Can't have the Polish, Hungarians, French dominating cultural sphere of romantic era music. It explains why Schumann's a part of the standard repertoire, as it certainly isn't because of the quality in the music.

On a semi-unrelated note, i performed Schumann's 2nd sonata last year and my teacher very much adored the performance. Even joked (as I'd like to believe) that I might be better at playing Schumann than Chopin, the latter being my favorite composer. Appalled, I almost fired her on the spot; I've since forgiven her for the transgression. I've made it my mission to never play another Schumann piece again, as to not relive the trauma I experienced during that period (playing Schumann..ugh).

Thal

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lostinidlewonder

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #11 on: January 25, 2023, 06:11:41 PM

Quote from: mjames on January 25, 2023, 06:03:52 PM

German propaganda.

I doubt the fact that Schumann is a part of every single examination board around the world has anything to do with propaganda and much more to do with pedagogical usefulness. People recording it still to today because of archaic propaganda? Don't think so. If there was no substance then others wouldn't be convinced by any such propaganda.

Quote from: mjames on January 25, 2023, 06:03:52 PM

In the 1830s-1850s era there was a lack of German superstar composers unlike the preceding eras. I believe the Germans, considering the influence they had on culture back then, artificially hyped up Schumann to place him amongst the true greats of that era (Liszt, Chopin, Berlioz etc.) Can't have the Polish, Hungarians, French dominating cultural sphere of romantic era music. It explains why Schumann's a part of the standard repertoire, as it certainly isn't because of the quality in the music.

Me think you are too much of a conspiracy thinker, that's fine no one will change your mind over that. The quality of Schumann's writing is obviously good from my perspective as a senior piano teacher, that is all I use to judge his works, I don't care what happened in the past. Schumann's melody writing is quite superb.

Quote from: mjames on January 25, 2023, 06:03:52 PM

On a semi-unrelated note, i performed Schumann's 2nd sonata last year and my teacher very much adored the performance. Even joked (as I'd like to believe) that I might be better at playing Schumann than Chopin, the latter being my favorite composer. Appalled, I almost fired her on the spot; I've since forgiven her for the transgression. I've made it my mission to never play another Schumann piece again, as to not relive the trauma I experienced during that period (playing Schumann..ugh).

I mean you can be melodramatic to emphasise a point, if what you say is a reality I think you really need to calm down a little more lol. If you have such a hate for Schumann you need to seek some kind of therapy because considering to fire a teacher for complimenting you on playing Schumann then vowing to never play the music again.... well... it's just a little insane.

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mjames

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #12 on: January 25, 2023, 06:23:29 PM

Quote from: lostinidlewonder on January 25, 2023, 06:11:41 PM

I doubt the fact that Schumann is a part of every single examination board around the world has anything to do with propaganda and much more to do with pedagogical usefulness. People recording it still to today because of archaic propaganda? Don't think so. If there was no substance then others wouldn't be convinced by any such propaganda.
Me think you are too much of a conspiracy thinker, that's fine no one will change your mind over that. The quality of Schumann's writing is obviously good from my perspective as a senior piano teacher, that is all I use to judge his works, I don't care what happened in the past. Schumann's melody writing is quite superb.
I mean you can be melodramatic to emphasise a point, if what you say is a reality I think you really need to calm down a little more lol. If you have such a hate for Schumann you need to seek some kind of therapy because considering to fire a teacher for complimenting you on playing Schumann then vowing to never play the music again.... well... it's just a little insane.

Therapy is most definitely what one needs after spending hours learning and memorizing Schumann's music. A fine suggestion.

Thal

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lostinidlewonder

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #13 on: January 26, 2023, 06:04:56 AM

Quote from: mjames on January 25, 2023, 06:23:29 PM

Therapy is most definitely what one needs after spending hours learning and memorizing Schumann's music. A fine suggestion.

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem lol.

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teresa_b

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #14 on: January 29, 2023, 01:56:15 PM

I have had mixed reactions to Schumann over the years (I am now old

) My childhood teacher loved "Album for the Young." I was not crazy about Schumann until in college I studied his piano concerto. Now I am involved in more chamber playing, and his Piano Quartet and Quintet are amazing (esp. the quintet). Listen to the slow movement of the Quintet, and hear desolation and despair part to reveal heaven. Or the romantically luscious slow movement of the Piano Quartet that ends by literally floating away, only to usher in an energetic finale guaranteed to lift your spirits to the heights. You don't have to like everything by Schumann, but give his works a chance if you don't want to miss some transcendent experiences.

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thalbergmad

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #15 on: February 03, 2023, 10:17:15 PM

Quote from: lostinidlewonder on January 25, 2023, 05:36:54 PM

Disparaging Schumann really is only an marginalized opinion. If he really was so terrible he would have been forgotten a long time ago, instead he is hailed as being amongst the greatest composers of all time and more people would agree that is correct that do not.

That is a bit like suggesting we should all eat faeces as a trillion flies can't be wrong.

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lelle

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #16 on: February 04, 2023, 11:15:45 PM

Quote from: thalbergmad on February 03, 2023, 10:17:15 PM

That is a bit like suggesting we should all eat faeces as a trillion flies can't be wrong.

Well, a trillion flies CAN'T be wrong, can they? Can they??

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frodo3

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #17 on: February 05, 2023, 12:34:50 AM

Quote from: visitor on January 18, 2023, 03:14:03 AM

I know it's the eternal debate , but I know I have avoided the music of Robert Schumann and never played any if his pieces , and I've improved greatly over the years while sparing my ears and avoided boredom

In conclusion, I believe not playing the music of Schumann is good for development of technique and not ruining your taste in good piano music.

Hello Visitor. Sorry you feel this way about Robert Schumann!

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frodo3

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #18 on: February 05, 2023, 12:35:48 AM

Quote from: thalbergmad on February 03, 2023, 10:17:15 PM

That is a bit like suggesting we should all eat faeces as a trillion flies can't be wrong.

Hello Thalbergmad. Your logic is amazing to me. Are you a logician by any chance?

Sorry you feel this way about Robert Schumann!

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frodo3

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #19 on: February 05, 2023, 02:02:47 AM

Duplicate post.

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lostinidlewonder

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #20 on: February 05, 2023, 09:54:32 AM

Quote from: thalbergmad on February 03, 2023, 10:17:15 PM

That is a bit like suggesting we should all eat faeces as a trillion flies can't be wrong.

That's a bit like suggesting you have a superiority complex.

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teresa_b

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #21 on: February 05, 2023, 10:01:50 PM

Quote from: thalbergmad on February 03, 2023, 10:17:15 PM

That is a bit like suggesting we should all eat faeces as a trillion flies can't be wrong.

A cat may look at a king, but its opinions can also be disregarded.

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pianistavt

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #22 on: November 21, 2023, 01:44:55 PM

I don't play Schumann either, anymore, not sure why. I worked on the g minor sonata back in university. Not sure the enjoyment vs effort ratio is high enough ... However, in his defense, I think Schumann is rarely understood/interpreted well... his repeats require a new angle on the music - a slightly different tempo, volume, or texture (all 3 combined!). Most pianists do not imbue Schumann with enough varied personality, they render him too academically/formally. I just remembered - I worked on Blumenstück Op 19 very intently. I think this is where Schumann is at his best - a piece for the pianist to play for himself, to sink into a reverie, explore the emotional depths and express as if no one is there.

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ego0720

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Re: Piano Technique and Schumann

Reply #23 on: November 21, 2023, 02:03:21 PM

Quote from: lelle on February 04, 2023, 11:15:45 PM

Well, a trillion flies CAN'T be wrong, can they? Can they??

"This time, Galileo’s technical argument didn’t win the day. On June 22, 1633, the Church handed down the following order: “We pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo… have rendered yourself vehemently suspected by this Holy Office of heresy, that is, of having believed and held the doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures) that the sun is the center of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth does move, and is not the center of the world.”
Source: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/galileo-is-accused-of-heresy

The delivery was funny.. and we probably are none the wiser. The world did wrong against this person for at least 300 years.

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