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Topic: Weird barlines in Ich Ruf' Zu Dir Herr Jesus Christ choral prelude  (Read 1097 times)

Offline lettersquash

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I downloaded a version of this prelude from BWV 639 from MuseScore and was surprised to find the barlines seemed to be in an odd place, with an anacrusis for the first beat and thus the first full bar beginning on the second beat. This seems at odds with the natural emphasis I expect, and generally find played, which is more straightforward, just beginning the piece on the strong/first beat. Until bar 9, it's hard not to count '1' on the scored 4th beat, but then it switches there - the first Ab in bar 10 seems to be the strong beat now. Between there and bar 13, this continues to be scored as my ear says it should, but the Db at beat 4 in bar 13 sounds like it's interrupted again as the first beat.

Although from here it seems more equivocal, I can still feel it to be shifted, such that the final strong chord on the F major might be the first beat of the final bar, as would be common in many pieces like this.

What do you think? Is this how Bach scored it (I've not found an original)? Many times, the chord changes emphasize a logical first beat, but are "early" (on the 4th of the previous bar), and little things like the firmatas often on the 3rd beat suggest that the fourth is a new phrase.
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Offline perfect_pitch

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I downloaded a version of this prelude from BWV 639 from MuseScore



Don't trust Musescore for anything.

Offline quantum

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To get more insight into this, one needs to understand that the source of this chorale prelude melody was a chorale, in other words vocal music. 

For modern hymn book settings to this chorale tune look here:
https://hymnary.org/tune/ich_ruf_zu_dir

You may notice there are two variants of the chorale melody.  Most variants do not begin on beat 1.  Text is very important in these chorales, thus text will give a clue as to why a chorale or hymn notated in a certain way.

For more on how Bach treated this chorale melody look here:
https://www.bach-cantatas.com/CM/Z7400.htm

In the section "Hymnal versions Bach may have known"  notice how the bar lines are drawn. 


Here is BWV 639 as it was written for organ




BWV 1124 with choir.  Score can be found here https://www.bach-cantatas.com/CM/Z7400.htm




BWV 177.  Chorale starts at 23:40.





Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline lettersquash

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Don't trust Musescore for anything.
Hehe. I forgot to say this is how all the versions I've found are written. I was actually about to go back to the uploader and tell him he put the bar lines in wrongly, and I'd already moved mine with marker pen, when I checked online!

@Quantum, I'm not sure, but I think we're at cross purposes. The prelude, as far as I understand it, is just instrumental, just organ originally. The text parts come later, to different tunes. So the question, for me, still remains. When you begin listening to this, it just seems to scream at you that it begins on the first beat of a bar, not a lead-in (anacrusis). Yet that shifts in the middle section, and back again from bar 13 to being rather odd. Of course, there are other examples where Bach messes with your sense of timing.
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Don't trust Musescore for anything.

I meant this just as a general rule in life anyway - even if it doesn't apply to this one score.

The amount of times I've seen scores with like 13 leger lines, and bars with 4.5 beats in the bar is excruciating... or poor rhythmic grouping.

Offline lettersquash

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I meant this just as a general rule in life anyway - even if it doesn't apply to this one score.

The amount of times I've seen scores with like 13 leger lines, and bars with 4.5 beats in the bar is excruciating... or poor rhythmic grouping.
Yes, that's very true - anyone with an account can upload their own scores.
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