Parent in Denial

[ChristmasCarol]

Permit me a few moments of whining.  I finally told the mother of a child I have been trying to teach for a year and a half, that I could not take her money, I cannot teach your daughter to play piano.  This child cannot look at the first page of a beginner lesson book and play it.  She cannot differentiate her left and right hands.  I have tried everything, she's 9.   It is the most extreme case of dyslexia I have ever seen.  Okay, so I felt relieved when we stopped.  Since the mother was not responding as I spoke, I suggested she might want to try another teacher.  (I mentally apoligize here to that teacher whoever they may be)  However, the younger sister is continuing with me.  So, last night's lesson younger sis tells me older sis is studying with another teacher and maybe she'll take from her next year too and she might "do better with her".    I feel this has undermined my teaching relationship with the younger sister.  Should I forget about it or speak to the mother?  Older sis is on some drug or other (I hate this whole Ritalin thing) so I know that there are problems cropping up elsewhere.  Truthfully I don't think this mother has a clue about helping them practice enough to learn very well.  Would you drop this family, or hang in there? 

[Brian Healey]

I want to say "hang in there" and don't give up, but really I think in the end it is more trouble than it's worth. You could try speaking to the mother, but I wouldn't press the issue very hard. You're still teaching the younger sister, and the dyslexic one is with another teacher, correct? I would probably just go on with my business with the younger sister, and she leaves eventually, too, then fine. Unless you really need the money and you're hustling for every dime, I don't see the need to try and convince the mother otherwise if she feels the need to switch teachers.

I think you made the right choice with the dyslexic child. I personally know a fine pianist who has dyslexia. He has trouble sometimes reading music, but he has worked with it and developed certain strategies so that his dyslexia really isn't an issue anymore. Unless you know how to deal with this kind of problem, you'd be doing the child a disservice by continually trying to teach her the "normal" way.


Peace,
Bri

[ChristmasCarol]

Thanks Brian,
I have more students than I need really.  Thanks for your feedback.  Is there a way I could communicate with your dyslexic friend?  I'd love to hear about some of his techniques.  My concern is that now the little sister has been given the message that she might do better with another teacher.  That undermines her confidence in the process for now.  Oh well, I'll hang in and see where it goes.  The issues are almost always with parents, not the kids wouldn't you say?

[bernhard]

To add to Brian's most excellent reply.

I totally sympathise with you having been in the same situation a number of times. Children can be quite brutally honest and unappreciative, can’t they? On the other hand their feelings are like leaves in the wind. Today they blow one way, tomorrow another way. We, grown-ups tend to cook in our own juices, while the little ones just move on and forget it all the next day.

I have had six-year olds tell me that they hated me, hated the piano and hated coming to have lessons (sometimes right after a lesson where they seemed to be enjoying themselves to the full), and the next day they would tell me how much they loved me how much they adored playing the piano and so on. So I asked: “What about yesterday?” “What about yesterday?” “You told me you hated me and the piano” “Did I?” “Yes, don’t you remember?” “Yes, I remember! But today I like you”. And that was that.

So, over the years (and I am sure you do not need me to tell you that – but then someone new to teaching may be reading this and may profit from it) you do develop a thick skin, and you do learn not to get too attached to a student’s judgement, in particular a child’s judgement.

As for your question. Is money a consideration? In the past, when I was just starting, I went through a lot of students I would not touch today with a barge pole because I could not afford to refuse them. With such students, my attitude was always experimental: What can I do that will make this student progress. You see, I was not really interested in the student’s progress, but rather in learning about the teaching process. So basically I was being paid to train myself. Curiously, many times this benefited the student enormously. Most often it benefited the other students.

If money is not a consideration, and you do not feel your teaching can benefit from this – possibly stressful – experience, then you may be better off letting the student go. If you do decide to continue I would suggest a hefty dosage of detachment (which is not quite the same as indifference).

Should you talk to the mother? Difficult to say without knowing the mother. Here in the UK piano lessons are considered by most as just another activity to keep the children occupied, so that the parents have a quiet moment for themselves. They usually resent any idea that they should be in any way encumbered with “helping” their children practice. After all, that is why they come to piano lessons, so that the parents need not be involved in the first place! (One of the main reasons I have daily lessons – if they are not going to practise at home, then at least we go the whole way and practise during the lesson). I have a number of Chinese students, and that is a whole different kettle of fish. Mothers are eager to help at home and be part of the process. I even have students where the parents have decided to have lessons themselves in order to better understand and better help their children (one father and two mothers). Needless to say these are the students who show miraculous progress. Unfortunately this sort of attitude is quite rare.

Personally I hate to give up on students, it always feels like failure on my part (and probably is). However I also hate being under appreciated, and if I suspect this is the case, then I will gladly let the student go. It is really hard to cope with students that show little or no interest in the piano, that will not practise, and (a pet peeve of mine) that do not keep their files organised (I give my students much material that take me time and effort to prepare, and to see they cannot even bother to have the pages clean and in order in their files – let alone read it – really makes me wonder why I bother), but to have non-understanding parents on top of that is not good.

I wish you luck.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[timothy42b]

I would say losing both students was absolutely predictable. 

I can imagine very few parents that would not change teachers for both. From the mother's viewpoint, the other teacher is so much better than you that she can handle the tough student, imagine what kind of progress she'll make with the easy one.  Plus, you seem to have made the decision unilaterally.

It probably was the right decision.  But feelings might have been less hurt if the mother had made it.  I wonder if a better way to approach it might have been something like:  Make an appointment with the mother.  Tell her that you are really concerned that the child does not seem to be making progress.  Tell her that you've tried some different approaches but nothing has worked, and you don't know anything else to try.  Ask her if she is satisfied with the situation, or does she think it might be time to let another teacher have a chance.  Tell her you are afraid that you are just adding to the child's frustration.  Remember that the child's condition is not news to the mother - you only struggle with her for the half hour a week, while the mother gets to enjoy it the other, umm, lessee, 7x24 - 0.5 hours, somewhere around 167 hours. 

Try not to be angry with the child for something that is not her fault, try not to be angry with yourself for something that is not your fault.  And remember, the mother can't fix it either. 

You may not have taught the child much piano.  On the other hand, you've had a relationship with the child for a year and a half, and it is very possible you've benefitted her enormously in other ways. 

[ChristmasCarol]

I would say losing both students was absolutely predictable. 

I can imagine very few parents that would not change teachers for both. From the mother's viewpoint, the other teacher is so much better than you that she can handle the tough student, imagine what kind of progress she'll make with the easy one.  Plus, you seem to have made the decision unilaterally.

It probably was the right decision.  But feelings might have been less hurt if the mother had made it.  I wonder if a better way to approach it might have been something like:  Make an appointment with the mother.  Tell her that you are really concerned that the child does not seem to be making progress.  Tell her that you've tried some different approaches but nothing has worked, and you don't know anything else to try.  Ask her if she is satisfied with the situation, or does she think it might be time to let another teacher have a chance.  Tell her you are afraid that you are just adding to the child's frustration.  Remember that the child's condition is not news to the mother - you only struggle with her for the half hour a week, while the mother gets to enjoy it the other, umm, lessee, 7x24 - 0.5 hours, somewhere around 167 hours. 

Try not to be angry with the child for something that is not her fault, try not to be angry with yourself for something that is not your fault.  And remember, the mother can't fix it either. 

You may not have taught the child much piano.  On the other hand, you've had a relationship with the child for a year and a half, and it is very possible you've benefitted her enormously in other ways. 

Thanks for your input.  I did all that you suggested.  I tactfully asked the mom months and months ago if the girl was doing okay in school.  She said, yes... well she has a little trouble with focusing but she's fine.  (I only found out she was on Ritalin a couple of weeks ago which is months after this conversation)    A month ago, I said, I really think we should stop because she is not learning to play the piano.  The mom said she spoke to her daughter and she wanted to try another month and see if she and her mother could work on it together.  A month passed with absolutely no change.  I'm guessing this child spent maybe 10 minutes twice a week playing the piano.  It was only then that I said we have to stop these lessons and maybe she should try another teacher.  That is not my problem.  The mom said she wanted her other daughter to continue with me.  By telling her daughter she might do better with this new teacher, I feel she has undermined the process with this little girl.  I just don't know if it's a good idea to continue.  I think the mom cannot face her daughter's difficulties with learning and that is why I titled this thread denial issues.  I absolutely don't mind that she has tried another teacher with this child.  I suggested it.  But, this family does not practice and this child cannot wing it ever ever.  In discussing with the dad this week when mom was out he seemed frustrated that his wife had started the child with another teacher.  The school had suggested they cut back on the number of activities she is enrolled in and let her get good at one thing.  I said every word you mentioned above.  That is my frustration I guess.  Well, gotta go teach some others.  Thanks for your input.  I sometimes think I invest too much of my emotions in this business

[Bob]

I think I understand the situation from what I read.  Not totally sure though.

It may be that the mother told the daughter she would be more successful with another teacher to take the pressure off the daughter.  The mother may have been trying to be careful with her daughter's feelings.  "You'll do better with another teacher," instead of, "You're not learning and the teacher is tired of you."  It doesn't sound like this was the typical student with the dyslexia issues.  I wouldn't let it get to you.  It may not really be you.  The parent may be protecting their child, and that's really there first priority.  The mother may have said one thing to her daughter just to make her feel better.  The parents could be embarassed, feel responsible, or feel guilty that their daughter has a disability or isn't doing well in school.  Who knows what the full situation is?  It sounds like the parents aren't quite communicating either.  Maybe one of them or someone else in their family has the same thing as their daughter.  There could be a lot more than what they say.  I wouldn't let it bother you.

I agree with a lot of what Bernhard said.  If the student is insulting, then you can always turn things around so they're useful to you, if you want to improve your teaching in this area.  Knowing more about dyslexia may benefit one of your future piano students or the ideas generated my benefit you and all your piano students.  If you solved this girl's problems, that would be a positive for her and for you.  However, that takes a lot of investment of your time and energy.  That might not be worth it if you're not interested in working on teaching students like this one in the future and if you don't need the money or the student.  If you want it to be advantageous to you, it can be.  You can promote yourself to others saying that you teach everyone, even students with disabilities like dyslexia.  I'm starting to wonder now about a few teachers I know who seem to brag about teaching students with disabilites...

[timothy42b]

You are not obligated to teach every child.

Nor are you expected to be able to find the magic answer to every situation.

I was not trying to be critical of you, yet to be honest I think there are a couple of things you could have done better. 


I hear some denial on your part, too, and I don't get a sense that you understand where either the mother or child is coming from.  I'm glad you did talk to her, but I'm not sure that you heard what she said.  You told her "I think we should stop."  I would have liked to have heard, "Do you think we should stop?" 

I think the frustration on both sides is born out of unrealistic expectations, and I reply a second time because I think the process of reconciling goals and expectations is one of the most important parts of this or any teaching problem.

I agree with your decision because I think the situation was no longer recoverable.   Earlier might have made a difference. 

I think if you'd asked the question and really listened, you might have heard one of two things from the Mom.  "Yes, I've been worried about it too, I wanted to talk to you but I didn't know how to do it without hurting your feelings.  I don't think she's ever going to make progress, and I think it's time to stop frustrating her."  Or, "Yes, I'm worried about it too, I wanted to stop long ago.  But she has so much trouble succeeding at anything, and piano is the bright spot of her week.  She talks for days about her lesson, and every thing you tell her she repeats to me over and over.  She just loves being able to take piano like the normal kids.  Would you be willing to continue for the rest of the school year?  We don't expect her to ever be a good player, but we think it's helping her, and she really values the time she spends with you."  I'd guess it's about 95/5  likelihood of the first response, but I don't know, and don't think you do either. 

I'm not sure what kind of expectations you have for your average student.  Some teachers think out of 10 kids, 9 ought to get in to Julliard and 1 become a professional concert pianist.  Others, as Bernhard says, expect to be expensive babysitters once a week!  Does anyone wonder what parents's expectations are?  I know there are piano moms, like pageant moms!  But probably more of them have more modest goals.  My daughter's piano teacher knows exactly what my goals are, because the first thing we did was discuss them explicitly.  That is probably rarely done. 

If this child had a physical handicap, instead of a mental one, like for example a couple of missing fingers, I'm sure you would have discussed with Mom what the goals should be before starting.  You might have decided to take her on anyway, because she'd be getting some basic music language education and some fine arts enrichment, and maybe a little fun.  Or you might have just told her you had a long waiting list and you needed the slot for someone who had more of a chance to become a player.  Either would have been perfectly valid.  But if you started with shared goals, you might not have been in this quandary a year or two down the road. 

[bernhard]

Although I am not sure the scenarios TimR describes are accurate of what actually happened, there are some very good points (I certainly will keep them in mind for future reference) in both his posts  (even if they are irrelevant for the problem in question).

I do agree that expectations from both teacher, parents, and perhaps most importantly the student must be somehow reconciled.

The problem is that expectations can be so off the mark that sometimes it may be better to ignore expectations completely, plunge ahead and after a while reconsider them again on the light of the experience of what it really means to learn the piano.

What about these expectations:

1.   “I will buy a piano once I know Johnny really wants to play”.
2.   “Johnny will start practising once he is at the advanced level”
3.   “Right now Johnny is under a lot of pressure in school. He cannot really play the piano outside lessons.”
4.   “Johnny does not want to play classical or read music. All he wants to do is to be able to play songs that people ask him to play. Can’t you teach him just that?”
5.   “I am afraid Johnny will not be able to come to lessons or to practise for the next six weeks since we are on holidays. I know his exam is in eight weeks time, but you can give him some extra lessons when we come back, can’t you?”
6.   “ You are not teaching me anything.” (Johnny who never practises or go near a piano besides the lessons).
7.   “You never taught me that” (Johnny, who is then shown an article I gave him, went through the article with him in several lessons. The article has the information he claims was never given repeated several times).

But perhaps the best story is the one about the teacher who taught a student for free (the parents claimed to be in dire straits), and succeeded in bringing the little Mozart from knowing nothing to passing his grade 3 in less than a year. The mother then informed the teacher: “Now that Johnny has learned the basics it is time for him to have a real teacher”, and promptly moved the prodigy to a paid teacher.

Or this nice story (not a piano teacher story). This lady was trying to learn English and not getting anywhere with an English teacher who she claimed not to be able to afford – and in any case she was not really learning anything – or so she claimed. My wife, who is a qualified English teacher, took pity on her and prepared her for free for the Cambridge First certificate examination. For over seven months she gave this lady daily one-hour lessons, with videos, exercises, lots of preparation and so on. It was really hard work, since the lady in question was how, shall I put it, on the side of intellectually challenged. The lady took her exam and passed with flying colours. After the exam she came to my wife and made the following request:

“Can I ask you to keep a secret? Do not tell anyone you gave me lessons, because I went to the house of my former teacher to tell her I passed the exam and thanked her for her efforts and gave her a nice bottle of wine, so she now believes that it was thanks to her that I passed, and I don’t want to hurt her feelings.”

Nice, heh? (By the way, my wife did not even get a “thank you”, although I was more interested in the bottle of wine ).

So, although I like your compassionate approach, I also think that each case is each case, and if you let, people will always take you for a ride, and it is really your fault if they do.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ChristmasCarol]

Ouch, Yeah I have been taken for a ride before.  And yes, I can look at whether I have been in denial myself.  I think, if I had it to do over I would stop teaching this child sooner.  Frankly, I thought just about every child was teachable before this.  So my experience has taught me the problems with that paradigm.  My naivite was that the mother understood what was going on.  I had asked her to observe a couple of lessons for herself.  My mistakes were... continuing long after I knew that fifteen minutes of practice before the lesson was about all either of these sisters were doing hoping that I would find a way to inspire them (something I have achieved many times before),  giving 5 dollars off the second lesson price, letting them pay me a week late twice cause money was tight ( "We" spend money like water - gymnastics, basketball, hockey lessons for the girls, trips to Australia, Disneyworld, etc.), waiting in the driveway repeatedly while they show up a few minutes late,  having them "forget" lessons twice (I made them pay of course).  So they are generally lousy customers.  In my efforst to see myself as a flexible, enlightened, love-every-student kind of person I have been a bit of a fool.   Which brings me back to my original quesiton.  Should I dump this family and how can I do so with some kind of dignity and grace.    I think Tim, that you have mixed up some of what's going on with the two girls.  I am not in any way unhappy that the older girl is taking with another teacher.  Please gawd I couldn't take it anymore with her.  The younger sister was clearly embarrassed once she said "I might take with the other teacher next fall cause I might do better".   The dad is frustrated that his wife has started this older sister in piano lessons somewhere else.   Heck, I'm going to learn to stay out of it when kids have learning problems.  I have helped myself into a quagmire.

[Bob]

What are we supposed to do with students like this?  Is it better to just let them go or is there a way to catch them?

One way of bowing out of lessons I have heard of was to tell the parents the child is hasn't practiced (and that you've gone over how to practice of course).  When the child has practiced and is ready for a lesson, they can feel free to come back.

[timothy42b]

I do agree that expectations from both teacher, parents, and perhaps most importantly the student must be somehow reconciled.

The problem is that expectations can be so off the mark that sometimes it may be better to ignore expectations completely, plunge ahead and after a while reconsider them again on the light of the experience of what it really means to learn the piano.


Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Yes, I neglected the student expectations, which really should be the most important.  I couldn't really figure how to get at it, kids are preverbal as well as not having enough data yet to form a good opinion. 

How do you approach it?  Neglect the abstract? Ignore it until later?  This is of more than academic interest to parents, who may share expectations with the teacher but probably rarely with their own child, at least in the beginning. 

[galonia]

Yes, I neglected the student expectations, which really should be the most important. I couldn't really figure how to get at it, kids are preverbal as well as not having enough data yet to form a good opinion.

I used to make the assumption that the aim of every child is to have as much fun as possible.  You're right, children aren't much good at telling you what their expectations are.  But I found that my assumption worked, and even those who were dragged by their parents into piano lessons didn't need to be dragged after a while.

[ChristmasCarol]

This mom at one point promised the girls that they would buy a grande piano if they did well with their lessons.  These girls are already given everything on earth.  They have a crummy ole spinet now.  This girl, who never practices and has the apparent learning disability told me this, all excited, picturing this event occuring without any effort on her part.  Communication is ever and always the teacher's job.  I like the idea of making lessons a sort of probationary thing.  Lets see how we do for three months, would let me off the hook if I encounter such problematic students in the future.  Still, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to create such an extreme policy change because of one experience.  I have so many fabulous students and families.  Well, I go there today.  I'll see how I feel about continuing.  Bummer.

[ChristmasCarol]

Well there ya go,
I went to the house last night for the lesson and Dad came to the door all embarrassed.  "Didn't my wife call you to say they were gone to the cape this week?"  Ah, no.  I am so out of there with this family.  They will of course pay me for the lesson, but gimme a break.

[Bob]

Ouch...  Yeah, there's definitely a point where you have to draw the line, depending on your goals and circumstances, of course.  Sometimes it's better to cut one loss than to let one loss drag on into five or six.  Too bad for the kid though.

[timothy42b]

One more piece of unsolicited advice.

Drop this family gracefully, despite how rotten they've turned out to be, and exercise some of Bernhard's "detachment." 

Why point out something this obvious?

Because I'm not sure you realize how angry you are with them.  Being angry doesn't cause you to overreact, necessarily, but being angry without realizing it pretty well guarantees it. 

[ChristmasCarol]

Thanks for comments,
This family was referred to me by another family who walks on water as far as I'm concerned, so I won't screw that up by being a jerk here.  I understand that this mother is trying the only we she can figure out, to support and protect her daughter.  It's a bit rough to be seen as the thing she needs protecting from, kind of.  That's the button that's being pushed in me.  I have this need to be seen as Mary Poppins, Leomard Berstein, and George Leonard all rolled into one.  Be assured I will be ever so kind.  I'm just trying to learn from this whole experience.  Children with learning disabilities put their parents on tilt and I'm sure I will encounter this again.  Does anyone out there have a form they have students fill out?  You know, who referred you, what do you expect, or maybe a form to give them of what to expect.  Am I angry?  Frustrated, yes.  Resentful, yes.  Okay, yah maybe a little.  But I will not at all let on 

[Bob]

You could have the parents fill out an information card for their child.  Put in a question about the student having any special needs you should be aware of.