Looking for advice on playing piano with an orchestra

[figaro]

I have been rehearsing with a group of musicians on a symphony piece.  Piano is accompaniment and the piece is contemporary with a lot of dissonance.  This is actually my first time playing with an orchestra and the hardest has been keeping time with everyone, the conductor.  The piece is also challenging with numerous key signatures, chords that stretch 9 notes, fast chord changes.  I can play it when practicing on my own, but it's when I need to bring it together with everyone that it's like I don't know how to play.  I'm really trying to get this right and I can hear sighs of annoyance from some people in the orchestra when I make a mistake.  Plus my own stress when I find out I'm behind on time.   Recently we practiced with a more sped up tempo and that was interesting.  Aside from continuing to work on following  conductor, could any of you offer some advice? 

[frodo4]

I have been rehearsing with a group of musicians on a symphony piece.  Piano is accompaniment and the piece is contemporary with a lot of dissonance.  This is actually my first time playing with an orchestra and the hardest has been keeping time with everyone, the conductor.  The piece is also challenging with numerous key signatures, chords that stretch 9 notes, fast chord changes.  I can play it when practicing on my own, but it's when I need to bring it together with everyone that it's like I don't know how to play.  I'm really trying to get this right and I can hear sighs of annoyance from some people in the orchestra when I make a mistake.  Plus my own stress when I find out I'm behind on time.   Recently we practiced with a more sped up tempo and that was interesting.  Aside from continuing to work on following  conductor, could any of you offer some advice?

I am just about to catch my flight out of town, but I have time to give this a shot.

You are playing a piece where piano has a secondary role to the orchestra.
This piece is full of dissonance and is not well known to the public (I am assuming the 2nd point).
You are unable to keep up with the orchestra.

Here are my 2 choices:

1) Edit the work but do not tell anyone.  Generally, the most important notes for you to play are the very lowest note and the very highest note.  But the middle notes may be the most important in some sections, depending on the performance directions given in the score or other musical factors.  Lesser important notes may be eligible for removal but consider the points made next. 

If there is a passage that contains thick chords – remove some notes of the chord but make sure the most important notes remain, often the lowest and highest notes of the chord should remain.  If there is a passage that has just 2 notes played at the same time – maybe tough because they are played very rapidly with 1 hand – just play the top notes or remove the low notes that make this passage hard for you.  Etc., etc.

Use your good ear and judgment and start making changes that gives the biggest bang for the buck.  You want to end up with an edited version that sounds good when playing with an orchestra and is EASY for you to play in time with the orchestra.  Do you have a good enough ear and judgement to properly edit this?  I hope that you do.  Let the conductor see if he can detect any edits.  I have little doubt that he will not be able to hear your edits if you can do the edits well.  If he does catch a spot, let him tell you and then see if you can play this spot unedited or with fewer edits. 

The thicker and louder that the orchestra is playing, the more edits you can make.  Make notes in your piano score where the orchestra is soft and you stand out.  These are the sections that you need to be most careful of when making your edits.  Can you make or listen to a rehearsal recording?  If yes, this will greatly help to see the spots where you stand out.

Of course, if you are playing by yourself and the orchestra is not playing for a section – your edits should be kept to a minimum.  But this should not be a problem since you will not need to keep up with the orchestra for this solo excerpt.

2) Tell the conductor that this project is over your head and he will need to find a replacement pianist.

Got to go now.  Good luck!

[figaro]

Thank you frodo4, for the suggestions.  It didn't occur to me that I could make a few adjustments to make it easier to play - but it makes sense. 

[lelle]

I have been rehearsing with a group of musicians on a symphony piece.  Piano is accompaniment and the piece is contemporary with a lot of dissonance.  This is actually my first time playing with an orchestra and the hardest has been keeping time with everyone, the conductor.  The piece is also challenging with numerous key signatures, chords that stretch 9 notes, fast chord changes.  I can play it when practicing on my own, but it's when I need to bring it together with everyone that it's like I don't know how to play.  I'm really trying to get this right and I can hear sighs of annoyance from some people in the orchestra when I make a mistake.  Plus my own stress when I find out I'm behind on time.   Recently we practiced with a more sped up tempo and that was interesting.  Aside from continuing to work on following  conductor, could any of you offer some advice?

I had a similar experience when I was a music student a number of years ago. Weird contemporary piece, basically no experience following a conductor, trouble keeping in time, getting lost. I ended up needing a guy sitting next to me at the premiere of the piece and quietly counting in my ear to help me follow along

Some tips:
- First of all, don't be hard on yourself for struggling with this, messing up, or from a feeling of letting the other people down. Knowing how to gel with a conductor and orchestra is hard if you haven't done it before. The other orchestra musicians have practiced both plenty of times by the time they/you are at the level you are at, you haven't. It's just the nature of things. Of course it's going to be difficult for you. So do your best to be your best friend and compassionate to your own situation and any failings that may happen. Plus, the more you can calm down and relax the easier it's to sync with other musicians and play in time.

- Find a friend or just any student who knows how to conduct and ask if you can practice just following them/playing in time etc. Talk to them about the difficulties you are having. Any extra experience and advice you can get will be invaluable since you are so new at this.

- Learn how the orchestra part goes and find as many parts/cues that you can recognize as possible, so it's easy for you to join in again if you get lost. This can help you feel more confident and relax.

- This might be a bit individual how well this works/suits someone, but - practice really feeling the pulse in your whole body and syncing that with the orchestra, rather than trying to slavishly follow the conductor. Use the conductor more as a guide rail to show that you are on the right track. If you try to just follow the baton with your eyes, process what you saw intellectually and then put each beat into the right spot, you'll be slightly late all the time and get out of sync. Hope that makes sense.

[frodo4]

I had a similar experience when I was a music student a number of years ago. Weird contemporary piece, basically no experience following a conductor, trouble keeping in time, getting lost. I ended up needing a guy sitting next to me at the premiere of the piece and quietly counting in my ear to help me follow along

Some tips:
- First of all, don't be hard on yourself for struggling with this, messing up, or from a feeling of letting the other people down. Knowing how to gel with a conductor and orchestra is hard if you haven't done it before. The other orchestra musicians have practiced both plenty of times by the time they/you are at the level you are at, you haven't. It's just the nature of things. Of course it's going to be difficult for you. So do your best to be your best friend and compassionate to your own situation and any failings that may happen. Plus, the more you can calm down and relax the easier it's to sync with other musicians and play in time.

- Find a friend or just any student who knows how to conduct and ask if you can practice just following them/playing in time etc. Talk to them about the difficulties you are having. Any extra experience and advice you can get will be invaluable since you are so new at this.

- Learn how the orchestra part goes and find as many parts/cues that you can recognize as possible, so it's easy for you to join in again if you get lost. This can help you feel more confident and relax.

- This might be a bit individual how well this works/suits someone, but - practice really feeling the pulse in your whole body and syncing that with the orchestra, rather than trying to slavishly follow the conductor. Use the conductor more as a guide rail to show that you are on the right track. If you try to just follow the baton with your eyes, process what you saw intellectually and then put each beat into the right spot, you'll be slightly late all the time and get out of sync. Hope that makes sense.

Great tips!   I am re-reading the OP and I see that I did not address any of the following:
1) This is actually my first time playing with an orchestra and the hardest has been keeping time with everyone, the conductor
2) I can play it when practicing on my own, but it's when I need to bring it together with everyone that it's like I don't know how to play.

Figaro - sorry for my completely missing the target with my post.  Lelle gives great advice!  But I would still consider doing some "adjustments" to the score if all else fails for a difficult passage.  "Adjustments" would normally be greatly frowned upon for solo performances, concerto performances and chamber music performances.  But in this case, I would not personally object to a few selected adjustments. 

Good luck!

[figaro]

Lelle - thank you for sharing your own experience, plus encouragement and advice.  Yes, I will work on managing my stress to help focus more on getting in sync with orchestra.  And your comment about just watching the conductor's baton is true, at times it's almost hypnotizing.  I'm noticing the pulse that you mentioned, and will try to focus on that too. 

[figaro]

Great tips!   I am re-reading the OP and I see that I did not address any of the following:
1) This is actually my first time playing with an orchestra and the hardest has been keeping time with everyone, the conductor
2) I can play it when practicing on my own, but it's when I need to bring it together with everyone that it's like I don't know how to play.

Figaro - sorry for my completely missing the target with my post.  Lelle gives great advice!  But I would still consider doing some "adjustments" to the score if all else fails for a difficult passage.  "Adjustments" would normally be greatly frowned upon for solo performances, concerto performances and chamber music performances.  But in this case, I would not personally object to a few selected adjustments. 

Good luck!

Thanks - I made a small adjustment to some chords at the introduction, which I think helps with transitioning,  and also comfort

[anacrusis]

When is the performance, how much time do you have to work on things?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

If it’s your first time just know you’re probably gonna bomb lol.  It’s like that for most people if your first time playing with an orchestra is some weird contemporary sh*t lol

Anyways here’s some actual advice:

Cheat the *** out of it.  If it’s too hard just don’t play it.  Drop notes, change rhythms, all that stuff.  The most important is you get the general idea of what the composer is tryna get across.  (Melody rhythmic drive etc…). 99% of these contemporary composers aren’t pianists anyways to they have horrible piano writing style

[figaro]

If it’s your first time just know you’re probably gonna bomb lol.  It’s like that for most people if your first time playing with an orchestra is some weird contemporary sh*t lol

Anyways here’s some actual advice:

Cheat the *** out of it.  If it’s too hard just don’t play it.  Drop notes, change rhythms, all that stuff.  The most important is you get the general idea of what the composer is tryna get across.  (Melody rhythmic drive etc…). 99% of these contemporary composers aren’t pianists anyways to they have horrible piano writing style

. 

Yes - I did mess up during the performance.    And now preparing for my second concert - also a contemporary piece and you're right to mention that the composer doesn't play piano and the piano writing style isn't what you normally see for piano scores.  It's a bit of work on my part to figure out how to play, including one section with hand crossing that repeats 24 times.  I guess I need to take this as all about learning and just do my best.