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Topic: How to get the "liszt technique" (Read 618 times)

the green piano man

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How to get the "liszt technique"

on: May 02, 2023, 09:58:04 PM

I was watching lisztes amazing paragraphs and I noticed it usually uses the same kind of technique. I think you know what I am talking about. How can I reach that level when this kind of technique is "in my hands"? What exercises should I do? I really want to reach that level when I dont have to worry about crazy cadenzas I dont care how much hour should I put into my technique

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mjames

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #1 on: May 03, 2023, 09:01:16 PM

Apparently he played a lot of Czerny during his teenage years. But I doubt you'd be up for that, lol.

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robertus

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #2 on: May 04, 2023, 05:09:01 AM

With Liszt, the parts which sound hardest are often actually not that difficult. Basically, all you need to do is develop a certain level of finger strength, equality and independence- then "technical" passages are a piece of cake.

The way to develop this (which is what Liszt and co. actually did) was using the type of exercises where you hold the fingers down in a fixed position, the exercise fingers (or combinations of fingers) in isolation. Check out Isidor Philip's Exercises for the Independence of the Fingers, or his Exercises for Developing the Equality of the Fingers. Also, the volume of technical exercises attributed to Liszt himself (at least the first bunch) illustrate this approach. Or check out the exercises for finger independence in Joseffey's School of Advanced Piano Playing. Or Henselt's Daily Exercises.

These things won't make you a great musician in themselves, but they will give you the "Liszt technique" you are aiming for.

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rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #3 on: May 04, 2023, 02:59:08 PM

Exercises don’t give you good technique. Body awareness and problem solving skills give you good technique.

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the green piano man

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #4 on: May 04, 2023, 05:24:14 PM

I will check the technique books out thanks. Only independent fingers are needed? Yeah thats why I want to handle easily the "looking hard" passages because then I can focus on the music totally and i dont have to worry about the technical issues. What kind of body averness do you think?

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ranjit

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #5 on: May 05, 2023, 01:27:56 AM

Good arm and wrist positioning, combined with finger independence and articulation. At high tempos, you need to know how to preserve energy using slight "fudging" imo.

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robertus

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #6 on: May 05, 2023, 03:35:15 AM

Quote from: rachmaninoff_forever on May 04, 2023, 02:59:08 PM

Exercises don’t give you good technique. Body awareness and problem solving skills give you good technique.

That's like saying, "Lifting weights and working out won't give you big muscles- it's all about body awareness...." Musical technique is a matter of physical skill (neuromuscular control, as in finger independence), and physical conditioning (developing flexibility of tendons, development of the flexor and extensor muscles, etc.)

Liszt's own approach to practice (practicing on a muted keyboard, while reading books), reflects that.

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the green piano man

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #7 on: May 05, 2023, 07:54:49 AM

Quote from: ranjit on May 05, 2023, 01:27:56 AM

Good arm and wrist positioning, combined with finger independence and articulation. At high tempos, you need to know how to preserve energy using slight "fudging" imo.

Yes but how can you improve your articulation?

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cuberdrift

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #8 on: May 05, 2023, 10:29:49 AM

To get the Liszt technique, study the Liszt exercises. Here they are.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=953af4f9e351cfc8f11b3b5c9b0c37f9&action=dlattach;topic=26608.0;attach=3782

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robertus

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #9 on: May 05, 2023, 11:53:38 AM

Quote from: the green piano man on May 05, 2023, 07:54:49 AM

Yes but how can you improve your articulation?

Articulation comes down to proper development of the extensor (finger lifting) muscles- these are the muscles on the outside of your forearm. Practising repeated notes with change finger are great for this- are they are treated extensively in the Liszt Technical Exercises.

Also, you should check out Isidore Philip's Exercises for the Independence of the Fingers. They will give you that professional articulation, which makes all the difference.

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rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #10 on: May 06, 2023, 03:50:14 AM

Quote from: robertus on May 05, 2023, 03:35:15 AM

That's like saying, "Lifting weights and working out won't give you big muscles- it's all about body awareness...." Musical technique is a matter of physical skill (neuromuscular control, as in finger independence), and physical conditioning (developing flexibility of tendons, development of the flexor and extensor muscles, etc.)

Liszt's own approach to practice (practicing on a muted keyboard, while reading books), reflects that.

That’s a false analogy. Piano technique is about finesse while lifting weights is not. Finger independence is also a myth since they all share tendons. It’s more useful to think of how to engage each finger despite them being anatomically connected with each other.

Edit: also lifting weights doesn’t guarantee big muscles that’s another myth. It depends on the type of lifting you do.

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the green piano man

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Re: How to get the "liszt technique"

Reply #11 on: May 08, 2023, 09:14:18 AM

Quote from: robertus on May 05, 2023, 11:53:38 AM

Also, you should check out Isidore Philip's Exercises for the Independence of the Fingers. They will give you that professional articulation, which makes all the difference.

I started doing that a couple days ago and I already feel some difference, thank you very much!

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