Arm issues again

[jono]

Hello!
I've done a lot of scale-exercising lately, and the last couple of days, my arm is beginning to feel sore. Just like my last post about injuries, this is just an alarming sore feeling, nothing serious yet. When i started to feel this about 9 days ago, I stopped playing for 5 days and then it went ok. But now it's like it was nine days ago, (started playing again the day before yesterday)

   It's one (or several) muscles on the underside of my forearm that's beginning to feel a bit sore. I've tried to strech out the muscles by bending my palm and fingers upwards/backwards, but i'm not sure if it works. It feels like a very mild version of trainingache (I don'n know the english word for it  ). But one should be able to play as much as i've done without getting injured, it's only about 1-2 hours a day. And my technique is not to bad, i've tried to follow your advice as best as I could.

I went to a physiotherapist today (not specialized at all, but there are not so many options where i live) and she called having pain on your underneth-forearm-muscles by the elbow for golfarm. What ive got is not at all an injury, but it might become one. At least she was really cass, and she had not a clue what she was talking about! She recommended exercises for your hand, for example lifting a small heavy thing up and down, by moving your hand sideways (a movement that's advised against for piano players)!! That just makes me so angry, people giving advice abou something they know less about than yourself...! That's why i'm asking you guys instead

I'm not so familiar with the injuries you menion, because my english is not that good... But from what you've read, can you tell if I'm doing some common mistake, and what should i do about this to make it good again? Please give advice (if you know what youre talking about of course )
Take care /Jono

[Brian Healey]

Actually, moving your hand sideways is a good stretch for your hand.  Hold your hands in front you with loose fists, as if you were riding a bike. Now move your hands horizontally from side. Do it slowly and gently, but enough so that you can feel the stretch on the outside of your thumb. This is great for stretching and loosening the tendons in the thumb.

Back to your problem though. Even though going to the doctor didn't seem to help, you've already made the most important decision. Even if the injury doesn't appear serious, you can never be too careful with your hands and arms when you're a piano player. I say that as long as the problem is persisting, you should keep on it, and try to seek out a hand specialist that deals frequently with pianists.

The bending of the palm and fingers upwards/backwards is effective for certain tendons, but there is a better stretch for the forearm. I'll post it later, as I'm actually in a time crunch right now and I have to go. Sorry to leave you in suspense!


Peace,
Bri

[ted]

You are absolutely sure, I assume, that the trouble is correlated to piano playing and not caused by some other activity you tend to forget about ?

Secondly, I do not think that any playing involving many repetitions of the same movement is particularly good beyond a certain necessary point. Grinding away for a very long time on one movement (scales, octaves, thirds, jumps... anything) is basically doing to your arm what sawing up a tree with a handsaw for an hour does.  To avoid soreness in this latter case I would change arms, use a different stroke, different grips, different angles, take pauses, use the lightest grip possible and so on.

I don't really see any difference with playing the piano. Try using different positions and techniques for your scales and insert practice of other playing forms - for music's sake preferably playing forms of your own invention which sound nice - between shorter scale sessions.

I have never had the slightest injury from playing and I 've come to the conclusion it's partly because I improvise so much. Improvisation, to be interesting, needs a huge variety of playing forms and accordingly the movements are constantly varied. 
I think this is what has saved me. Variety is the keynote - difficulty doesn't matter if there's variety with it. Most of the people I've heard about who suffer from injuries, and the number of fine players who do is absolutely appalling, diligently grind away at one piece, one exercise, one motion for long periods.

That's my theory anyhow.

[Brian Healey]

Great advice by Ted. Doing the same repetitive motion for a long time is bad. Mix it up a little bit.


Anyway, here is the forearm stretch I was talking about. Hold your arm straight out in front of you, parallel to the ground.  Turn your hand so that your palm is facing skyward.  With your other hand, grab your outstretched arm at about the mid-forearm. Slowly "twist" your forearm in an outward direction (clockwise for right arm, counter-clockwise for left arm). You should feel the stretch in your upper forearm. Hold this for about 30 seconds.

This stretch works to release compression in the forearm that can result from repetitive finger motion (such as piano playing). Doing this might help with the soreness, but certainly do not hesitate to seek out medical attention if the problem persists or gets worse. Or maybe even seek out an experienced pianist or piano teacher to see if they can help you out in any way, because it may be a technique thing.


Peace,
Bri

[anda]

it sounds to my like a light-stretch, however, i'm not sure i understood correctly everything you said, so i'll only give you some advices i'm very sure to be ok (i mean, things that couldn't do you harm - at the worst case, these might not help at all):

1. use a muscle-relaxer cream (go to the pharmacy and ask for an anti-inflamatory cream) during the night (put on some right before you go to bed, it'll do miracles over night).

2. do not sleep on your hand! this might sound ridiculous, but i've had a student complaining of sore arm (he was using my technique, so i knew it couldn't come from piano playing) and i finally found the source of the problem - he slept all night with his left hand stretched under his body!

3. play piano every day - but only up the point when it starts hurting. now is not the time for scales, hanon or other finger exercises. sight-read anything you like, slow tempo, maybe work on your small dynamics (pppp - mp, and not more).

i'm not sure what would help you - but i am very very sure that pushing your arm now could lead to a severe injury!

[jono]

Thanks for your great advice! Actually I sleep on my hands/arms when I sleep on my stomachside, at least in periods! Do you know if the student got any better after stopping to sleep on his arms, Anda?
Take care /Jono

[xvimbi]

Just to throw in my two cents: I also think that you just overdid it. One could now argue that with perfect technique there is no such thing as overdoing anything that is that low impact as piano playing, but that wouldn't be useful while we are still working towards perfect technique. On the other hand, one must mention "perfect" technique. In my experience, sore or tense muscles come mostly from co-contraction. When moving from one note to the next, you are probably lifting your finger upward while the opposing muscles are still somewhat engaged. You are essentially doing double work, and that is tiring very quickly. Just back off a little, do something else and then come back again.

However, most importantly, get a feeling for when your problems occur. It is one thing to realize you do have a problem, but it is more important to find out what causes it. So carefully observe what you are doing, or have somebody knowledgeable observe you.

Finally, I don't usually disagree with Brian's excellent pieces of advice, but this time, I'd like to point out that tendons shouldn't be stretched (actually, they can't really be stretched). It's the muscles that one should stretch. Once the tendons get stretched, they usually rupture, because they have very little stretching room. Brian probably meant muscles, but it is common to think about "stretching tendons" instead.

[anda]

Thanks for your great advice! Actually I sleep on my hands/arms when I sleep on my stomachside, at least in periods! Do you know if the student got any better after stopping to sleep on his arms, Anda?
Take care /Jono

yes, he did. hope you do too,

best luck