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Topic: How to learn Scriabin's Sonatas? (Read 1755 times)

rtheunissen

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How to learn Scriabin's Sonatas?

on: June 28, 2023, 12:59:27 PM

Dear all,

In my journey of discovering and learning music, I've never come across pieces that made me question if it's even possible to play them or not. Some pieces might have seemed very hard and out of my reach (for now), but everything appeared possible. There are, however, some exceptions. Lately, I've been fascinated with Scriabin's (late) sonatas and I would absolutely love to learn one. The problem is that when listening to them, and even looking at the sheet music, they all (let's say from No. 5 onwards) seem practically impossible. I think it's mostly because of the terrifying (poly)rhythms, that they seem 'unplayable'. If you've played one or multiple (including the ones prior to No. 5), I'd really appreciate some tips on where and how to get started playing these terrifyingly colossal mountains of music, which I mean in the best way possible of course. A sort of 'roadmap' or ranking on which of the 10 sonatas to learn when would also help

Thanks in advance!

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mjames

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Posts: 2557

Re: How to learn Scriabin's Sonatas?

Reply #1 on: June 28, 2023, 05:10:20 PM

The same way you'd learn any other difficult piece. I wouldn't even attempt Scriabin's sonatas unless you have a firm grip on romantic repertoire in general. A lot of what you encounter in Scriabin you'll find in Liszt, Beethoven, Chopin etc; just on steroids. For example, I don't find the polyrhythms in the 5th sonata particularly challenging or even unusual at all. What seems impossible to me are the leaps.

Anyways I don't know about 'roadmaps' but when you're thinking about playing these pieces you should at least be at the level where you shouldn't be asking these questions. Anyways once again just get familiar with the repertoire in general. Scriabin took a lot from Chopin, so work on his pieces, at least his large scale works. I've played both op. 58 and op. 19 and there are a lot of similarities between the two. Scherzi, ballades, etudes will help too. Play some mid-late Beethoven sonatas. A bunch of Liszt works, Scriabin was a fan of him too. At least the etudes, which will help you quite a bit with ridiculous leaps across the keyboard. A good deal of Rachmaninoff's miniatures carry some similar textures to Scriabn's late romantic style.

Also last but not least, Scriabin's own works. Want to play the sonata fantasie? Play the miniatures published around the same time to familiarize with the style. Same thing with the other sonatas.

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lelle

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Posts: 2506

Re: How to learn Scriabin's Sonatas?

Reply #2 on: June 30, 2023, 10:54:05 AM

Like any piece. You identify the difficulties, you break them down into manageable pieces, and work on them until you've mastered them. If you struggle with the polyrhythms, identify which polyrhythms are present in the piece. For example, (inventing now), there might be a couple of 5 against 4,and a couple of 3 against 2, on top of which is a 4 (sixteenths for example), which consists of 3 sixtenths, a 32nd-note rest, and a 32nd note. Then you take these two patterns and study them until you've mastered the difficulty. Then all these places in the piece are essentially solved because you know how to tackle them.

I'd argue the no. 9 "Black Mass" is the easiest of the late sonatas, if you've reached the technical level needed. I think you might find that many parts of that sonata are quite playable, it's just mixed with more difficult stuff.

(I've learned no 2, and worked on no 5 and no 9 but did not finish them because I got distracted by other music. No. 5 is a bucket list piece for me).

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thorn

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Posts: 784

Re: How to learn Scriabin's Sonatas?

Reply #3 on: June 30, 2023, 11:40:20 AM

I agree that Black Mass is the easiest of the late sonatas, relatively speaking. I play this one, and have also worked on 6,7,10 (but not finished). The difficulty gap between 9 and 10 isn't as great as the difficulty gap between 9/10 and 6. Most people will argue that either 7 or 8 are the most difficult.

On the polyrhythms, Scriabin loves his quintuplets so get 5:2, 5:3, 5:4, 5:6 in your head so they come as naturally as 2:3 and 3:4. This goes for most late Scriabin, not just the Sonatas!

I think that Scriabin's influences from earlier composers are most relevant in his early/mid period works. You'll be just fine with the 2nd Sonata if you've played a lot of Chopin and Rachmaninoff, for example. But late Scriabin is a marmite thing- many people play one/a few from 2-5 but don't touch (or particularly like) the later ones, except perhaps 9. For me the best way to get used to late Scriabin is to play late Scriabin.

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paxxx17

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Posts: 42

Re: How to learn Scriabin's Sonatas?

Reply #4 on: September 05, 2023, 02:23:42 PM

As people have already pointed out, go through easier Scriabin pieces of the late period. Dances Op. 73, Poeme-Nocturne Op. 61, etc. You don't necessarily need to learn them; just sight-reading and practicing will enable you to read the sonatas.

I learned the 8th sonata (which was my first Scriabin or 20th century piece; it was even the first and the only sonata that I've ever fully memorized!) without preparation and it took me a full year. The technical difficulties are not that crazy even though it's said to be one of the most difficult Scriabin sonatas.

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lelle

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Posts: 2506

Re: How to learn Scriabin's Sonatas?

Reply #5 on: September 06, 2023, 11:57:42 AM

Quote from: paxxx17 on September 05, 2023, 02:23:42 PM

As people have already pointed out, go through easier Scriabin pieces of the late period. Dances Op. 73, Poeme-Nocturne Op. 61, etc. You don't necessarily need to learn them; just sight-reading and practicing will enable you to read the sonatas.

I learned the 8th sonata (which was my first Scriabin or 20th century piece; it was even the first and the only sonata that I've ever fully memorized!) without preparation and it took me a full year. The technical difficulties are not that crazy even though it's said to be one of the most difficult Scriabin sonatas.

I believe the 5th sonata is the most challenging in terms of mechanical ability, but the late sonatas are very difficult to put together musically with all the layers and polyrhythms. I've also heard the 8th is among the hardest of the late ones.

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Topic: How to learn Scriabin's Sonatas? (Read 1755 times)

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