Slow and *Heavy* Practice? / Practicing Advise

[gs_piano]

Hello!

Recently, I have joined a conservatory and started studying under a new teacher. He seems very talented and good at performing, but at times I struggle to understand what he means by certain things. I am working on Chopin's Op. 25 No.12 etude and I am struggling a little bit on how to gain clarity from it. My teacher is suggesting I do slow practice with very heavy fingers. (Either that or accented practice or rhythm practice). I have been practicing those a lot, but I seem to be having some issues. Firstly, I progress seems to be very slow. When I asked how long he had practiced the piece before he was able to play it well, my teacher seemed to have trouble answering the question. First he said it took him 2 weeks to learn, but after I clarified that I meant how long it took him to get it performance ready, he still seemed to struggle still and ended up saying a couple weeks. This is disheartening, because I do not feel like it will take me only a couple weeks to prepare this piece for the stage. Secondly, I have been feeling a lot of tension while doing weighted or slow and heavy practice. If not tense, then I would feel a discomfort in my wrist while trying to remain loose. This has caused me to only be able to practice for short periods of time for fear of injury. Today, I asked my teacher if he gets tense when he does weighted practice, he said yes, but did not seem to think it a bad thing. This, too, is disheartening, because I am not able to gauge whether or not I'm doing something wrong or perhaps the technique is not for me. I feel a little bit lost on how to practice because with our conversation during today's lesson, the overall message just seemed to be, "figure it out."

For some context, I started piano under a teacher my freshman year of high school and only really got serious once Covid hit during the summer of 2020. I have tried my best to improve as much as I can with the short time that I have had, however one of my biggest issues (I think) is that I feel I lack direction when practicing. My old teacher gave me some helpful suggestions on ways of practicing (metronome practice, grouping, accenting, rhythm changes, etc) however at times it felt like he continued to repeat the same techniques whenever I would struggle. This ended up giving me the sense of uncertainty on how to move forward with my pieces, and I have not been fully content with how a lot of my pieces have turned out. I also am still developing my technique, which may be a reason why I am struggling so much. It seems like everyone is just able to pick up the techniques necessary for any piece with just a couple of weeks.

Another issue I find confusing is the amount of disagreement on how to successfully practice. Some people seem to not need to practice at all and just pick something up in the blink of an eye while others say they take up to a year to master only one piece. Some people advocate for not practicing scales (which is also disheartening because most of my teachers seem to believe this and it only creates more confusion). Some people believe in very heavy fingers and only needing finger work for piano while some people believe that you need not train your fingers with technique books at all but instead learn how to properly use the wrists and arms. Some people are strong advocates for slow metronome practice and increasing the speed by 5 bpm every 2 weeks or so, and some people never use metronomes and only focus on the music.

So to summarize, the big questions I have are: Am I doing something wrong when doing weighted practice or is the technique dangerous and what can I do to get more direction when you practice? What do you usually do to practice? (This is unrelated, but I am also curious how you guys divide up your practice times, especially when preparing a concert program? How do you ensure none of your pieces get rusty while practicing tougher spots in other music?)

Thank you for reading this and your response!

[pianopro181]

Hello!

Recently, I have joined a conservatory and started studying under a new teacher. He seems very talented and good at performing, but at times I struggle to understand what he means by certain things. I am working on Chopin's Op. 25 No.12 etude and I am struggling a little bit on how to gain clarity from it. My teacher is suggesting I do slow practice with very heavy fingers. (Either that or accented practice or rhythm practice). I have been practicing those a lot, but I seem to be having some issues. Firstly, I progress seems to be very slow. When I asked how long he had practiced the piece before he was able to play it well, my teacher seemed to have trouble answering the question. First he said it took him 2 weeks to learn, but after I clarified that I meant how long it took him to get it performance ready, he still seemed to struggle still and ended up saying a couple weeks. This is disheartening, because I do not feel like it will take me only a couple weeks to prepare this piece for the stage. Secondly, I have been feeling a lot of tension while doing weighted or slow and heavy practice. If not tense, then I would feel a discomfort in my wrist while trying to remain loose. This has caused me to only be able to practice for short periods of time for fear of injury. Today, I asked my teacher if he gets tense when he does weighted practice, he said yes, but did not seem to think it a bad thing. This, too, is disheartening, because I am not able to gauge whether or not I'm doing something wrong or perhaps the technique is not for me. I feel a little bit lost on how to practice because with our conversation during today's lesson, the overall message just seemed to be, "figure it out."

For some context, I started piano under a teacher my freshman year of high school and only really got serious once Covid hit during the summer of 2020. I have tried my best to improve as much as I can with the short time that I have had, however one of my biggest issues (I think) is that I feel I lack direction when practicing. My old teacher gave me some helpful suggestions on ways of practicing (metronome practice, grouping, accenting, rhythm changes, etc) however at times it felt like he continued to repeat the same techniques whenever I would struggle. This ended up giving me the sense of uncertainty on how to move forward with my pieces, and I have not been fully content with how a lot of my pieces have turned out. I also am still developing my technique, which may be a reason why I am struggling so much. It seems like everyone is just able to pick up the techniques necessary for any piece with just a couple of weeks.

Another issue I find confusing is the amount of disagreement on how to successfully practice. Some people seem to not need to practice at all and just pick something up in the blink of an eye while others say they take up to a year to master only one piece. Some people advocate for not practicing scales (which is also disheartening because most of my teachers seem to believe this and it only creates more confusion). Some people believe in very heavy fingers and only needing finger work for piano while some people believe that you need not train your fingers with technique books at all but instead learn how to properly use the wrists and arms. Some people are strong advocates for slow metronome practice and increasing the speed by 5 bpm every 2 weeks or so, and some people never use metronomes and only focus on the music.

So to summarize, the big questions I have are: Am I doing something wrong when doing weighted practice or is the technique dangerous and what can I do to get more direction when you practice? What do you usually do to practice? (This is unrelated, but I am also curious how you guys divide up your practice times, especially when preparing a concert program? How do you ensure none of your pieces get rusty while practicing tougher spots in other music?)

Thank you for reading this and your response!

I think the fact that you’re still developing your technique and obviously quite young makes all of this a confusing time of your life because there is just so much essential music to cover before you really feel the improvement through experience.

What I would say though is that along the way you can do certain things that will greatly steer you in the right direction and one of those things is to have a teacher (or in some cases teachers) that you feel are giving you advice that is both beneficial and logical.

Often times students who are starting out are too nervous to change teacher as they’re afraid they’ll get a bad reputation for doing so but what they’re forgetting and only later come to realize is that they’re the ones paying to study at the institution and it’s absolutely their right to do so and for the sake of their future.

From what I’ve gathered it may very well be a consideration for you to change and to have several consultation lessons with those you may be interested to study with. But of course that is up to you, but by the sounds of things that may very well be the correct course of action.

[lostinidlewonder]

You should remove all thoughts of what "some people" do or achieve and focus on what works for you.

If something is not working tell your teacher and be clear about it. It seems to me that good teachers aligns a student's efforts and gives clear goals and targets and explains precicely the "how" to get there effectively for you personally.

[ego0720]

Information can appear to be self-contradictory at first. The reason is because to really understand what somebody is saying you can’t focus too much on content so much as to the reasoning behind the statements.

For example, I did practice scales a lot when I was younger. Not so much these days. The argument against scales is that they focus on technique and rhythm over musicality. Also, if one practices techniques incorrectly on a scale it can reinforce bad technique.  So learning scales divorced from a song can numb creativity of a person (such is what Schuman criticized Czerny). But it develops technique. Arguably without personality. So is everyone wrong?  Are scales good or bad? It’s eye of the beholder and what needs to be accomplished. Nobody is wrong it just requires rationale. Understand why they said it.. experiment.. and it either works or it doesn’t. One has to listen to one’s body and be tuned to themselves. Your evolution and adaptation to how great you become is yours and yours alone. While you should listen to the advice of others the biggest skill is to have critical thinking skills and know yourself. Go from there. Don’t stress too much about others.

The problem with heavy hands.. is that there are healthy and unhealthy practices. And we don’t really know until it really hurts when it’s wrong. If your hands are fatigued from long practice that is ok it’s like a feel-good tiredness. If your hands feel pain.. that’s not ok. I can only comment that my fingers are always light as a feather and they only press as hard as the weight of the piano keys and no more (no stress added to fingers by the metacarpals weight). I guide the fingers to follow 1/2-1inch into white keys and maybe 1/4-1/2 inch black keys. Adjustments by forward back motion of elbow + up / down motion by wrist. Sometimes if more force is required (like a forte bang) the fingers hold still like a fishhook and pound on the key by the weight of metacarpal + forearm dropping down + some downward movements. As the fingers do not have strong muscles I reserve the fingers for finesse stuff and let the larger muscles of metacarpals and arms-forearms to do loud stuff. Fingers just don’t have the muscle design to bulk up. These statements can sound like opposite advice but if u try at the piano it’s not contradictory in practice. If that makes no sense .. don’t worry. The explanation is always hard but the execution feels very right to me (big sounds big muscles — in this context fingers utilize only static position).  This is not something I think about until asked. The point is that for this to work one has to ultimately meditate on this truth and internalize the information. It’s part physical, part mental, and part spiritual. But that is my way. It may or may not work for you but now u know how it works for me. I might change my practice as I read about others view. But the ultimate answer has to come with your own analysis. Keep in mind that sometimes if your mind has limitation you may not be ready to acquire certain things. Sometimes that’s a reflection of the persons teaching ability or a failed connection of a truth that works for them but not you.

I’m reading from many sources and the safest generic advice is to break practice sessions into small bits (like multiple sessions). Some advocate for 15-20”. Imo, it’s better to go slow. Understanding what to do and doing it right is better than killing your hand and being forced to quit. I’m a hobbyist btw so take that into context. However I have done other recreations that give me deep understanding and I feel they all apply similar principles.

[jamienc]

The phrase “heavy fingers“ can be quite misleading. Judging from what he says, and based upon my own technical application of practice techniques to repertoire that I’m learning, I believe what your teacher is trying to explain is the idea that the finger should feel as though it has momentum through the key, but all the time it should be as loose as possible from the large knuckle on your hand. A lot of technique is taught through the use of “weight” as a mechanism to get the appropriate sound for the repertoire you are learning. I find this quite destructive as it invites the use of much more arm and gross muscles to control the piano sound. This simply is not the case with much of the repertoire you will play.

If I were to interpret “heavy fingers“ as a means to learning that étude, it would mean ensuring that the finger travels completely through the key, but is completely loose upon reaching the key bed. The key to learning any repertoire is to ensure that once the key is played, the finger is released from any muscular tension that activated the key in the first place. Slow practice is definitely your best friend when learning the gestures that will be required to successfully arrive upon the musical message you wish to convey in the repertoire that you play, but it all cost you must ensure that every strike of the key is met with suppleness and the release of tension once that key is activated.

It seems as if your instructor has the correct idea, but is not quite capable of explaining in clear terms what physical mechanisms are required to achieve the facility necessary to successfully perform those gestures. Try practicing the etude slowly, but only using the finger from the big knuckle down to the fingertip to activate each key. All the while, be conscious of the finger traveling to the key bed and releasing the tension upon that moment. See if this helps, and let us know if you have reached any success with that particular approach.

[ego0720]

… key to learning any repertoire is to ensure that once the key is played, the finger is released from any muscular tension that activated the key in the first place… must ensure that every strike of the key is met with suppleness and the release of tension once that key is activated.

…only using the finger from the big knuckle down to the fingertip to activate each key. All the while, be conscious of the finger traveling to the key bed and releasing the tension upon that moment..

You brought up great points. But there was something confusing here for me. Not clear if u were emphasizing the point at which to stop pressing the key (key bed) to allow inertia to finish the job *or* the muscular tension utilization that in the fingers. Earlier u indicated you did not want the use of arm and gross muscles as they are destructive as controllers of piano sound. And in the last paragraph u stated “only using the finger from the big knuckle down to the fingertip to activate each key”.  Yet they are to be loose? (Unless loose was in reference to key bed?)

For me the movement of my arms-wrist-hand translate to the momentum of the fingers which thus reduces the energy requirement of finger muscles to press the key (to which fingers become more of the medium by which energy transfer through). I utilize some finger muscles rather than anymore and use it to direct or guide the force generated by the gross muscles. This requires very delicate management from a bigger power source to assist in the finer motors to give my hands longevity. After all Force = 1/2 mass velocity squared. We use mass and we use velocity from the arms-hand-wrist as dynamic variables such as to facilitate the fingers to carry their job as a translator. If I misread your comments let me know I’m genuinely curious why you prefer not to use the “weight” as a mechanism?

[jamienc]

You brought up great points. But there was something confusing here for me. Not clear if u were emphasizing the point at which to stop pressing the key (key bed) to allow inertia to finish the job *or* the muscular tension utilization that in the fingers. Earlier u indicated you did not want the use of arm and gross muscles as they are destructive as controllers of piano sound. And in the last paragraph u stated “only using the finger from the big knuckle down to the fingertip to activate each key”.  Yet they are to be loose? (Unless loose was in reference to key bed?)

For me the movement of my arms-wrist-hand translate to the momentum of the fingers which thus reduces the energy requirement of finger muscles to press the key (to which fingers become more of the medium by which energy transfer through). I utilize some finger muscles rather than anymore and use it to direct or guide the force generated by the gross muscles. This requires very delicate management from a bigger power source to assist in the finer motors to give my hands longevity. After all Force = 1/2 mass velocity squared. We use mass and we use velocity from the arms-hand-wrist as dynamic variables such as to facilitate the fingers to carry their job as a translator. If I misread your comments let me know I’m genuinely curious why you prefer not to use the “weight” as a mechanism?

Thanks for your reply!

First, it is so difficult to explain in a forum what I’m trying to describe, which is why it is so much more effective to demonstrate in person how I perceive the arm/wrist/finger mechanisms to work best when playing piano. Also, I don’t want to suggest that the arm is not involved in the overall technical application, but I do find students of mine using it in excessive and destructive ways. The arm, from my perspective, has three main purposes that need to be carefully coordinated with the wrist, palm, and finger joints for proper technical ability. 1) lateral movement to bring the fingers to the correct position or “shape” of the keys needed, 2) vertical motion when playing octaves or chords, and 3) vertical motion when needing to “lift” for phrasing purposes and to release tension.

The problem I see most often is when the concept of “weight” is used to explain the main physical gesture of achieving a desired sound. Often this translates to a student who is having technical difficulties (and hasn’t yet mastered the crucial idea of body awareness) as needing “strength” or “power” to muscle their way through difficult or faster passages in the repertoire. This is why I always use the term “momentum” or playing “through” the key to help remain loose and mobile as positions or finger work shifts around the keyboard. Op. 25 No. 12 is an excellent example of how the arm and fingers must coordinate to get the proper physical flow without becoming fatigued by the second page. One of the sure symptoms of weight being misunderstood by a student is when the fingers continue to press the key after it has been activated, which leads to the obvious pain or tightness in the wrist and forearm. If you are a teacher, be sure to look for the “claw” hand position. It means the student is continuing to apply pressure to the key, which does nothing but make things difficult in demanding passages.

Therefore, the big knuckle is the most important joint in the entire playing mechanism if lightness and suppleness is to be maintained through any piece. This is where the concept of “finger independence” comes in, which is another thing that is grossly misinterpreted by students. Independence has NOTHING to do with strength, and students should be aware that they will never get the fourth finger to be as strong or agile as the index. Independence has everything to do with the conscious access of each finger without the assistance of the wrist or arm. Hence, the concept of momentum (especially when practicing slowly) enables the student to refine their awareness of how each finger should feel as it travels through the key, and is then released. Now, one of the most difficult things to teach/demonstrate is the idea of releasing the activation of the key but not letting the key itself come back up. This is where most students will continue application of physical pressure without allowing the finger to relax. Tension will travel up through the wrist and into the forearm quickly if this occurs. Training the body to stay in the key (if necessary) but release the momentum that activated it in the first place is extremely important for one to play freely without ending a difficult work or passage exhausted. Very difficult to refine!

In general, I follow this basic rule when practicing: the faster I am required to play a piece, the more time I spend training my fingers to playing lightly and with the least amount of physical stress possible. When properly achieved, it is remarkable how durable the fine muscles actually are when it comes to endurance through difficult repertoire. Hope this helps!

[ego0720]

First, it is so difficult to explain in a forum what I’m trying to describe … one of the most difficult things to teach/demonstrate is the idea of releasing the activation of the key but not letting the key itself come back up. This is where most students will continue application of physical pressure without allowing the finger to relax. Tension will travel up through the wrist and into the forearm quickly if this occurs. Training the body to stay in the key (if necessary) but release the momentum that activated it in the first place is extremely important for one to play freely without ending a difficult work or passage exhausted. Very difficult to refine!

Hope this helps!

Thanks again! That explanation did it for me. I get it now. Your explanation was wonderful. For me worth more than gold!