Listening to concert pianists is bitter-sweet

[richradio]

Hi all

I felt moved to sign up to this forum to reach out to a community of like minded people, and in truth, to find out whether my current experience is shared with others here and whether there is any sound advice.

I watch/listen to pianists on YT such as yuja wang, daniel barenboim, Yunchan Lim (of course!), Tiffany Poon as well as a host of others. I enjoy watching and listening to these artists who have seemingly mastered their art - it provides a huge amount of motivation in my own playing. That is....until I sit down and try and play!

I feel like I'm in a rut with a mindset of, "I'm never going to be anywhere near as good as these people I listen to...so whats the point". There is a comparison being made which is wholly unhelpful.

I feel my techniques are poor, my left hand is particularly weak and I'm now in my 50's so feeling like I'm probably too late to improve massively. Any one managed to see big improvements in their playing at such an age?

Has anyone got any advice here? I have a yearning to be able to play pieces like Beethoven sonatas which embody such beauty and the dichotomy of life but also feel like maybe I just doing have the technical ability to deliver what I want to feel about the music.

Maybe I need to just stop watching these artists and concentrate on my own journey Maybe its doing more harm than good.

I dunno....I apologise for the rambling and somewhat disjointed post. Anyone out there felt the same as this and have you come through it with some new found wisdom to share!?

Kind regards


Richard   

[bryfarr]

Questions about one's relationship to piano practice, motivation, etc, are questions about the mind - perceptions, beliefs, attitudes, etc - more to do with how your view and manage your life.  The problem you present is a basic problem every amateur pianist, every adult student, has to resolve.  The resolution is typically "to do the best I can", and not compare yourself to others.  Spend some time figuring out whether you're willing to commit and invest some time and effort in piano.  Find a teacher and insist they give you an honest assessment after 18 months.

"You can have results or excuses.  Not both."  - Arnold Schwarzenegger,

If you want to stay on the fence, listen to the great pianists and dream, then checkout facebook, perhaps "Adult Piano Learners" group.  People here are quite committed.

[ranjit]

I also feel jealous of concert pianists sometimes. It really is a waste of energy, but it's only natural. Realize that even when you do learn a Beethoven sonata, they will still be light years ahead of you. If your goal is to create a recording that is better than any that exists, you're in for a rough time. But I don't think that needs to be the goal.

For practical advice, spend time (ideally, several hours per day but don't push into fatigue or tension),  observe keenly, and try to teach yourself the movements. Mirroring the movements of the stronger hand really helps with retraining a weak hand.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LRi-u10zSkA&pp=ygUOaGFtZWxpbiBtaXJyb3I%3D

If you have enough dedication,  spend a lot of time, and have some talent,  I think it should be possible to play some of the easiest Beethoven sonatas, as far as playing the notes with some degree of accuracy goes.

Look up Alan Rusbridger for some inspiration. He learned the 1st Chopin Ballade in his 50s with sporadic practice. He struggles with the difficult sections and doesn't play it that well. But he can play all of it, from memory,  at tempo, while fudging a few spots. That's still plenty satisfying!

[lostinidlewonder]

I've taught a 50 year old who could play the tougher Beethoven sonatas after about 2 years. I've also taught a 50 year old who after 20 years can only just manage Moonlight Sonatas first movement. I've taught 50 year olds who after 5 or so years can only play grade 1 pieces. Probably count on one hand (3 people) those who are 50+ and beginners who get to a high level and I've taught hundreds of people.

I advise that you find the joy for music right now, it is not a distant destination it is something you live immediately. If you are only passionate about Beethoven sonatas or these upper level works then I feel you are missing out on a lot.

When people listen to concert pianists and think less of their worth as pianists it makes me think about money. Are billionares the only ones who can have a happy life? What about those poor millionares lol. Or what about the destitute poor people, should they just be confined to a life without happiness? What rubbish.

[ego0720]

Having the right attitude matters. Most of us likely wont be a hero to save someone in a fire. But we can all help out a loved one by washing the dishes and doing laundry.

Similarly, don’t be envious of someone else bc of how good they are. Appreciate them for getting to a high level. And make your goals practical and in small chunks. Most olympians do not think they would be great when they started. Most of them began with ordinary and mediocre teachers and parents. They just focused on being better than the previous week and don’t think too much ahead.

I’m happy just entertaining family members and friends. Sadly, it’s a lot of work for small advancements. And the results do vary (sometimes considerably) depending on one’s knack. But most important is to maintain that passion. From multiple hobbies, I can tell u it all ends up the same journey. Ultimately music, like many subjects, is a tool for one to discover oneself and grow. Use the experience learning as a means of reflecting on one’s character. Sometimes we like to be at the destination and judge ourselves based on where that presumed acme will be.. this can be detrimental. Best to do is focus on the creative aspect of music (complexity is but one avenue) and your repertoire. Music selection is the value of a musician and what those around will remember u for. Have fun, try some genre, and then zoom in on what u feel makes u enjoy the magic of said subject matter. In the end, the sun burns out and humanity will be gone from the universe so you can only do one thing which is be a good person and generate positive energy.

[brogers70]

Hi all

I felt moved to sign up to this forum to reach out to a community of like minded people, and in truth, to find out whether my current experience is shared with others here and whether there is any sound advice.

I watch/listen to pianists on YT such as yuja wang, daniel barenboim, Yunchan Lim (of course!), Tiffany Poon as well as a host of others. I enjoy watching and listening to these artists who have seemingly mastered their art - it provides a huge amount of motivation in my own playing. That is....until I sit down and try and play!

I feel like I'm in a rut with a mindset of, "I'm never going to be anywhere near as good as these people I listen to...so whats the point". There is a comparison being made which is wholly unhelpful.

I feel my techniques are poor, my left hand is particularly weak and I'm now in my 50's so feeling like I'm probably too late to improve massively. Any one managed to see big improvements in their playing at such an age?

Has anyone got any advice here? I have a yearning to be able to play pieces like Beethoven sonatas which embody such beauty and the dichotomy of life but also feel like maybe I just doing have the technical ability to deliver what I want to feel about the music.

Maybe I need to just stop watching these artists and concentrate on my own journey Maybe its doing more harm than good.

I dunno....I apologise for the rambling and somewhat disjointed post. Anyone out there felt the same as this and have you come through it with some new found wisdom to share!?

Kind regards


Richard   

A good teacher can make all the difference in the world, someone who can teach you how to practice and then how to figure out how to practice different sorts of problems. If you have the free time to practice 2-4 hours a day and a good guide to practicing, then I think you may be able to get to some of the less difficult Beethoven sonatas with time. I started at 40, had no good teacher and not much time for the first 15 years and made poor progress, but at 54 I retired from the Navy and found a good teacher and over the next 10 years got to the point where I can give non-embarassing house recitals or other low pressure performances that many people seem to like, playing things like Beethoven Opus 14 #1 or Opus 2 #1, Bach Preludes and Fugues, a bunch of late Brahms, Schubert Impromptus. In addition to having a good teacher I also learned a lot from Josh Wright on-line - his free videos are great and I found it worth it to subscribe to his service where you can write in with technical or musical questions and he'll make a video demonstrating the answer.

And as others have said already attitude matters. Think of all the ordinary folks who have a good time playing folk music with their friends. There's lots of beautiful classical music that is not technically demanding and that can sound great and be fun to play. Of course you won't sound like Barenboim, but if you play moderately easy pieces beautifully, you'll find people who like to listen. In fact it can be more enjoyable to listen to a decent amateur performance of a piece up close in someone's house than to go to a big hall to hear one of the greats.

[transitional]

Maybe you're not playing the right music - everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Listen to Richter's D 894 recording (particularly the 1st movement - 27 minutes long!) and you'll realize music isn't all about technique. Have you at least tried the "easy sonata," Beethoven's Op. 49 No. 2? It's easy but it's wonderful as well. And try slow movements too, which are not as involved in technique and you can really go as slow as you want  I'm drawn to the Tempest's 2nd movement, which has intimidating cadenzas but is really interesting, and could probably be executed easily when very slow.

I do not think you should worry about the effect of your technique. You are not a concert pianist, and I think you are doing well for starting at an older age. Just enjoy what you have!

[richradio]

Hi all

Thank you all so much for your replies. You have all hit on certain notes (excuse the pun!) Which have helped me.

I realize that my issue is one of perspective.

I'm going to step back from harder pieces for awhile and enjoy playing music however simple the piece might be.

I have actually just ordered the bach inventions so will focus on that for awhile as well as going back to basics with scales etc.

I am feeling much better about things today.

By the way, just to be clear, I don't for a moment resent any concert pianist of their talent. Quite the opposite. My feeling is a yearning to be able to express myself musically. But.....I guess we can all do that to some degree.

Thanks again for the time you have taken to read and reply. Onwards and upwards as they say!!

Kind regards

Richard

[geopianoincanada]

I'm middle aged and restarted piano lessons 5 years ago after more than 20 years away from my initial lessons.

Don't compare yourself to those who started young and struggled hard to achieve so much. Their success didn't come for free. My success won't come for free, neither will yours.

Ground yourself in the fundamentals. Scales. Technique. Arpeggios. Drill on them every day and then start with pieces which are appropriate to your level.

I hope you have a good teacher who can guide your progress as well. Piano is really not a DIY thing for most folks. I talked with my teacher the other day about this feeling somewhat amazed that from barely being able to play a few scales clumsily to now endeavouring grade 6 material, just how far one can come with all of these fundamental things.

Above all, persistence is number one in any pursuit and piano is no exception. There are days when I look at my piano and it mocks me for being so clumsy one day, then the next day I kick the piano's butt. We all have days which are up and down, good and lousy.

Piano is a marathon, not a sprint. Good luck!