Trills Beethoven 109

[sashaco]

I am embarking on Opus 109, most of which I can technically handle.  The trills in the final variation present a challenge, though.  It seems clear that he intends us to continue the 32nd notes that are written out early. This gives us 3 against 8 in the triplets that start at 164.  Do people play this strictly?  I have always struggled with polyrhythms and generally have to draw little charts and learn very slowly.  Is this the general practice here?  Should all the trills begin on the lower note and continue in 32nds? Does that require an extra note to move smoothly into the closing figures in bars 168 and 187?

[lelle]

You don't have to do it mathematically perfect, I've always interpreted it as a freer and faster trill when it switches to tr instead of 32nds.

But if you want to do 3 against 8, you can feel it as 3 against 2, with the 2 being an accent on each group of 4 32nds, then just sort of filling in the unaccented 3 notes. You can even practice it as a typical 3 against 2 until you really feel you got the pattern down, and then try adding the rest of the fast notes. Finally, you remove the accents.

[jamienc]

Czerny had stated that Beethoven approved of the triplets on the outside layers played as single notes followed by three trill notes between in each hand. I have experimented with several fingerings/arrangements of the notes between and have found two useful and relatively easy executions of this passage. The first is to play the b-c#-b notes as the trill figure between each triplet note with RH 1-2-1 and LH 1-2-1 as well. I know the LH 2 crossing over the 1 might seem awkward, but I found it much easier to use this fingering since it kept my trills symmetrical with the same fingers on each hand activated at the same time. With this fingering, I always leave the trill with my thumbs to access the triplet notes evenly.

The second is to play a three-note opposing trill on each hand between the triplet notes. This keeps the hand in a natural position, with the slightly less beneficial aspect of the trill notes now being opposite. In other words, the LH 2-1-2 will play b-c#-b and the RH 2-1-2 will have c#-b-c#. If you manage the dynamic level of the trills between carefully enough, the effect is just as satisfying and technically easier. Plus, you get to play the triplet/trill segments with a contrary motion between the hands that remains physically symmetrical.

The one thing I will say is that it is crucial to not allow the triplets to slow in tempo to accommodate the trills between. The whole point of those last pages is to create the rhythmic steamroller effect that climaxes on the diminished chord right after the triplets end and dissipates all the way until the trill stops before the opening statement returns at the end. It has to stay in tempo! Hope this helps!

[sashaco]

I'd like to thank you both for such thoughtful replies.  You both make a great deal of sense.  It seems, though, that if I'm going to try to play three notes BETWEEN the triplet notes that I'm going to run the risk of the slowing down that jamienc warns about.  I'm going to try all the ideas and see what I can manage.  Again, thanks.