My story : I am looking for help and advice

[pakkun]

Hello, I'd need some advice to understand if I have to keep looking for a different teacher. I am already at my second. But let me give you a little background about me and my life so far, for what it's worth.

I am 52 years old and I live in Italy. I have never studied the piano, well almost never.

When I was at the elementary school, my mom asked me if I would like to play some music, I said sure, I said I would like to learn the piano.
So she found me a teacher and I took my first lesson. Meanwhile I had music as a subject at school, the teacher explained the violin key and the notes, and for the next months he kept explaining the notes, and he showed us how to play them on the flute. Months and months repeating the notes and playing an instrument I found very boring, and also I mean why spending months on the notes ? It takes half an hour to understand the notes, why were we stuck on them for so long ? The second year he explained the different durations of the notes and also diesis and bemolles. I was very bored.

But let's get back to the teacher. After I took my first lesson, during witch he explained .... the notes ... we begun some solfeggio. I asked him if I could play some songs I liked, like Still Night or some other melodious christmas songs but he said no. So after like 4 or 5 lessons I quit.
My mother asked me if I would like a piano, but I said it didn't matter. He bought me a beautiful vertical piano (Schiller), he said that if I eventually found someone to play with I would be able to practice. He also said that if I didn't want to play it doesn't matter to her, I could keep the piano to remember she loved me and the fact I was free to make my choices and decisions.

Many many years has passed, I graduated at the university, took 2 specializations and began to work.

During all these years I was often feeling lonely, and tried to go on with my work and some interests, electronics, listening to the radio, reading books. I never got married, and I do not have a family so I am melancholic most of the time.

In the middle of January 2024 I was looking of youtube for some music, i searched "relaxing music" and I listened for the first time to the Nocturne no. 20 "lento con gran espressione" by Chopin. I felt a great emotion and I listened to it for the following days.

At the end of January 2024, after some research on the internet, I bought ad electronic piano, a Yamaha. I tried to press the notes on the old, but never used, vertical piano bought by my mother but most of the keys were stuck ...

On January 27th I begun to study some basic music on my own. I found a basic book, it is called Beyer and read the explanations and begun to play the exercices. The next week I finished the Beyer and all the exercices and wanted to play more melodic and interesting pieces, so I searched and listened to some Chopin pieces. I also looked for some advice about the easiest pieces by Chopin, and I came across the Waltz in La minor (A minor). I listened to it and I found it so beautiful and melancholic. I found out I could doenload classics for free at the SMLP database so I downloaded it and begun to play the notes. The most difficult thing I found were the left hand jumps, but I practiced and eventually I could play it slowly. After one week I had to spent 3/4 days to practice the arpeggio on bar 21. I had no idea how to play the triplets and quintet, but listening to some plays on youtube I figuered that out. I also had to do some researches on how to play the ornaments, appoggiature and there are also 3 ornaments mordents, I had to figure out. I also played some other pieces while focusing on the waltz, to try and improve my reading of the notes.
I also studied the Klaviestruck in F by Mozart, it is an easy piece and very pleasant to listen and practice.

At the middle of February I decided to buy some books I found, they are called Urtext Primo and each book has some of the easiest pieces from the classic authors. I also decided to begin taking a weekly lesson with a teacher, and I found one near my home.

I went to him the first time, we talked for some time and then he asked me to play something, so I played the Chopin waltz for him, I played it slowly so it was more acceptable. Then we looked at the books I bought and he asked me which author I would like to study, I selected Chopin. We looked at the Prelude 28/4 by Chopin which was on the book, and he made me read the notes of the chords of the left hand. He explained a particular way to read the notes, which is different from what I learned on the books , the notes by this system are : DO - RE - MI - FA - SOL - LA - TI (not SI, but TI with the "t"). Then he told me if i had to prononunce a note with the diesis I had to change the vouvel to "I" , for example DO diesis would be DI, RE diesis would be RI .... the exception is SOL diesis which is to be prononunced SI, and that is why the SI is called TI in this system, not to get confused with SOL diesis. The bemolles are to be pronounced with an "A", for example MI bemolle would be pronounced MA, Re bemolle RA and so on, with the exception of LA bemolle whitch would be pronounced LO.
He told be that for the next week I could practice the left hand of the Chopin Prelude, which I did. So the next week I played the left hand only, I memorized it with his system. Then he told me that for the next week I had to learn the right hand and put them together. We also started to read the Prelude 28/20, and he told me to learn and play the chords for the following week.

I tried some chords, the first 7 bars, then put together the hands of Prelude 28/4, then for a change I tried to play another short Prelude by Chopin that I found on the book it's the 28/7. I found it so beautiful I learned it all. I did not finish Prelude 28/20 because some of the fingerings were awkaward and I did not like it too much, I preferred the prelude 28/7.
So the next week I took my third lesson and I told him I did not finish the 28/20 and I finished the 28/7. He completely ignored it and angrily told me we had to finish the 28/7, so he told me to read the chords, 2 bars at a time and then play, and then play again without looking at the sheet, which I tried. During this lesson he was often very strange, for instance he explained to me how a chord had to be played and I said "oh ok this is the way" , and he told me I never had to argue with him because he knew what he was saying and he was right, but I was not trying to argue with him, I just was saying I was realizing how the passage had to be played.
He also had some very strange behavior, like he was ironic towards me during the whole lesson. He said I could say anything to him, but I should never say his lessons are not good, because he said one student did it in the past and he told him to "f*** o**" (his exact words) ... I also needed a pencil to write some notes on the book and I asked him if I could borrow his one, he seemed very upset when I used the gum to erase something. He also had some strange behaviour towards me, I asked what he meant by it and he told me he was just mocking me. I an not an unpleasant person, I am very tall and thin, but I had the feeling that he did not like me. So after the 3rd lesson I decided to look for another teacher.

I went to another teacher the next week, I told him I was just beginning and I needed advice, so he told me to play anything. I started to play the Chopin waltz. After the arpeggio he stopped me and he told me I was wasting my time. He said I should started the beyer, he opened a random page and told me to read and play a piece, it was a simple piece I already played on my own and i played it. I played the correct notes, but had one esitation on one note, I stopped for a moment and then completed the piece. He seemed very angry and he talked for like 15 minutes I did not have to stop when playing a piece. He the turned the pages of the book and told me to play a LA major scale excercice, and I did it. He did not say anything but he seemed very upset for some reasons. He told me to start looking at Bach Preludium in C, which was the first piece in one of my books. I played the first 2 and a half lines slowly, he told me I did not have to stop or hesitate when playing so he assigned me this piece for the next lesson.

I found this piece a little boring, but I was playing it with sight reading, so I did not memorize it. I eventually got bored and tried a few other pieces from my books. I found the little Sonate in D K32 by Scarlatti very melodic and beautifully moving, so I decided to prepare it for my next lesson.
It took one week and I could play it nicely I think.

The next week I told him I could sight read the Back Preludium in C and I also prepared the Scarlatti Sonate in D. He was very very angry, he told me I should do only what he told me, or like he said I would be wasting my time, he kept repeating it to me for the whole lesson (over 2 hours) it was embarassing. I asked him if I could play the Scarlatti sonate, so he could tell me where to improve, he did not seem happy I asked it, he was very nervous. He then told me I could play it. I started playing the first bars, then after bar 8 I started repeating it from the start, because there is the repetition sign/line. He stopped me and he told me I was playing all the wrong notes. I asked him what were the wrong notes, and he told me that all were wrong. I told him I was just repeating the first 8 bars, and he was very angry and said I did not need to repeat the bars with him because he already listened to them. He also told me I had to do the things precisely, but I thought I was doing the piece ok because of the repetition sign. Anyway I sayd ok, I could continue from bar 9 and on, and started to play a few notes. He stopped me again and shouted at me I was not playing the ornaments. There are 2 trills in the first 8 bars I played and I told him I had played them. He shouted "yes but you have to play them properly" ... I played the 2 trills again and I asked him where I was wrong, I wanted to learn how to play them properly. He did not answer but he kept shouting we were wasting time. He went on for like 10 minutes, then he told me : "you should not get angry if I say to you these things" ... I really was not angry, he was clearly angry at me.
I asked him if I could prepare for the next time one piece I like, but he assigned me 5 pieces from the beyer, and the Bach Prelude. I told him I could sight read the prelude, but he told me I had to practice it for the next time.
He also started to explaining me the keys. He explained the Do major and SOL major keys, and how the intervals worked. Then he told me for the next lesson I had to wtite down all the correct key signatures. I told him if he wanted I could write them down for him at that moment, but he got angry again and he told me I had to reflect it for one week.
Before the end of the lesson I told him if I could ask him a couple of things about the Beethoven Sonate n.8 second movement, which I found it beautiful and wanted to talk about the key signature and some other things I found in the piece, but he did not let me ask becaus he said that was a piece the pianists study after 8 years of piano.

I feel very discouraged, I cannot find a friendly teacher, that allows me to play the pieces I like, and with whom I could talk about music and harmony. I was very sad the following days, and I tried playing the Beethoven Sonate 8 second movement. I can play the first 3 pages slowly, but it has only been a few days, it is a beautiful piece and I feel very relaxed playing it. I also had some fun time figuring out the fingering. I do not have to take any exams, nor I want to be perfect, I just want a person to share my interest with, an expert to comment the melodies with and who can help me learning the pieces I like, possibly choosing the pieces together.

I was beginning to think if I was doing something wrong. So I am asking if you think I should look for another teacher. I felt very unconfortable with the first 2, but maybe I am doing something wrong and I am asking for unacceptable things ?

Thant you in advance for your help ! Best regards

[transitional]

There are other people on this forum that can answer better than me, but your teacher should not be scolding you so harshly. Sure, friendly criticism should be accepted, but this sounds disheartening. I just want you to know that not all teachers are like that, and I'm still on my first teacher who's pretty good at almost everything she does. How are you finding your teachers? Because if you just want someone to talk about the music with you and help occasionally, it might be worth asking a friend for help with piano if you know someone. Keep trying and if you can't find any teachers you like, so be it. At least you can enjoy what it seems like are a pretty good foundation of pieces to enjoy the instrument. And remember that there are always amazing members on this forum that will want to help if you ever need anything else!

[liszt-and-the-galops]

This is a lot of text to respond to at once; I'm going to respond to smaller chunks so I can help you out more.

Meanwhile I had music as a subject at school, the teacher explained the violin key and the notes, and for the next months he kept explaining the notes, and he showed us how to play them on the flute. Months and months repeating the notes and playing an instrument I found very boring, and also I mean why spending months on the notes ? It takes half an hour to understand the notes, why were we stuck on them for so long ?

Unfortunately, this curriculum is to be expected in early music classes. I remember my first 2 years of music class in upstate New York were just the basic notes, which I had already learned from an extremely famous song from a 1965 movie lol.

The second year he explained the different durations of the notes and also diesis and bemolles. I was very bored.

I have NEVER heard of diesis and bemolles...
Then again, I am self-taught, so could just be me not being familiar with normal vocabulary.

But let's get back to the teacher. After I took my first lesson, during witch he explained .... the notes ... we begun some solfeggio. I asked him if I could play some songs I liked, like Still Night or some other melodious christmas songs but he said no. So after like 4 or 5 lessons I quit.

Assuming he kept going with the notes through all 5 lessons, I guarantee this is unfortunately how he teaches all of his students.
There seems to be a popular misconception among many teachers that goes along the lines of "all children need the same amount of repetition, and lots of it." I don't know how it originated, I don't know why it gained popular belief, but I do know that it is completely false. Some people need significantly less repetition than others, some need more, some don't need much at all, some need months of it. Heck, it doesn't even stay the same across all subjects for one person; everything might just click into place for one person on one subject, at the same time as that person needing months to get a handle on a simple concept in a different subject. When it comes to kids, I've seen plenty of teachers take a very slow route to ensure that everyone in the class can grasp the ideas presented to them. To me, it sounds like you're able to grasp things at least somewhat more quickly than others, and the fact that it took so long for them to explain the most fundamental concept to you is what drove you away.

On January 27th I begun to study some basic music on my own. I found a basic book, it is called Beyer and read the explanations and begun to play the exercices. The next week I finished the Beyer and all the exercices and wanted to play more melodic and interesting pieces, so I searched and listened to some Chopin pieces. I also looked for some advice about the easiest pieces by Chopin, and I came across the Waltz in La minor (A minor). I listened to it and I found it so beautiful and melancholic. I found out I could doenload classics for free at the SMLP database so I downloaded it and begun to play the notes. The most difficult thing I found were the left hand jumps, but I practiced and eventually I could play it slowly. After one week I had to spent 3/4 days to practice the arpeggio on bar 21. I had no idea how to play the triplets and quintet, but listening to some plays on youtube I figuered that out. I also had to do some researches on how to play the ornaments, appoggiature and there are also 3 ornaments mordents, I had to figure out. I also played some other pieces while focusing on the waltz, to try and improve my reading of the notes.
I also studied the Klaviestruck in F by Mozart, it is an easy piece and very pleasant to listen and practice...
I tried some chords, the first 7 bars, then put together the hands of Prelude 28/4, then for a change I tried to play another short Prelude by Chopin that I found on the book it's the 28/7. I found it so beautiful I learned it all...
The next week I told him I could sight read the Back Preludium in C and I also prepared the Scarlatti Sonate in D...
I tried playing the Beethoven Sonate 8 second movement. I can play the first 3 pages slowly, but it has only been a few days, it is a beautiful piece and I feel very relaxed playing it. I also had some fun time figuring out the fingering.

If you could post some recordings of your playing in the audition room, that would be wonderful. I'm sure that many of us would like to hear your playing!

I went to him the first time, we talked for some time and then he asked me to play something, so I played the Chopin waltz for him, I played it slowly so it was more acceptable. Then we looked at the books I bought and he asked me which author I would like to study, I selected Chopin. We looked at the Prelude 28/4 by Chopin which was on the book, and he made me read the notes of the chords of the left hand...
He told be that for the next week I could practice the left hand of the Chopin Prelude, which I did. So the next week I played the left hand only, I memorized it with his system. Then he told me that for the next week I had to learn the right hand and put them together. We also started to read the Prelude 28/20, and he told me to learn and play the chords for the following week...
So the next week I took my third lesson and I told him I did not finish the 28/20 and I finished the 28/7. He completely ignored it and angrily told me we had to finish the 28/7, so he told me to read the chords, 2 bars at a time and then play, and then play again without looking at the sheet, which I tried. During this lesson he was often very strange, for instance he explained to me how a chord had to be played and I said "oh ok this is the way" , and he told me I never had to argue with him because he knew what he was saying and he was right, but I was not trying to argue with him, I just was saying I was realizing how the passage had to be played.
He also had some very strange behavior, like he was ironic towards me during the whole lesson. He said I could say anything to him, but I should never say his lessons are not good, because he said one student did it in the past and he told him to "f*** o**" (his exact words) ... I also needed a pencil to write some notes on the book and I asked him if I could borrow his one, he seemed very upset when I used the gum to erase something. He also had some strange behaviour towards me, I asked what he meant by it and he told me he was just mocking me. I an not an unpleasant person, I am very tall and thin, but I had the feeling that he did not like me. So after the 3rd lesson I decided to look for another teacher.

This just makes me sad.
Under no circumstances should anyone be treated like that; you made the right choice leaving that teacher.

I went to another teacher the next week, I told him I was just beginning and I needed advice, so he told me to play anything. I started to play the Chopin waltz. After the arpeggio he stopped me and he told me I was wasting my time. He said I should started the beyer, he opened a random page and told me to read and play a piece, it was a simple piece I already played on my own and i played it. I played the correct notes, but had one esitation on one note, I stopped for a moment and then completed the piece. He seemed very angry and he talked for like 15 minutes I did not have to stop when playing a piece. He the turned the pages of the book and told me to play a LA major scale excercice, and I did it. He did not say anything but he seemed very upset for some reasons. He told me to start looking at Bach Preludium in C, which was the first piece in one of my books. I played the first 2 and a half lines slowly, he told me I did not have to stop or hesitate when playing so he assigned me this piece for the next lesson...
The next week I told him I could sight read the Back Preludium in C and I also prepared the Scarlatti Sonate in D. He was very very angry, he told me I should do only what he told me, or like he said I would be wasting my time, he kept repeating it to me for the whole lesson (over 2 hours) it was embarassing. I asked him if I could play the Scarlatti sonate, so he could tell me where to improve, he did not seem happy I asked it, he was very nervous. He then told me I could play it. I started playing the first bars, then after bar 8 I started repeating it from the start, because there is the repetition sign/line. He stopped me and he told me I was playing all the wrong notes. I asked him what were the wrong notes, and he told me that all were wrong. I told him I was just repeating the first 8 bars, and he was very angry and said I did not need to repeat the bars with him because he already listened to them. He also told me I had to do the things precisely, but I thought I was doing the piece ok because of the repetition sign. Anyway I sayd ok, I could continue from bar 9 and on, and started to play a few notes. He stopped me again and shouted at me I was not playing the ornaments. There are 2 trills in the first 8 bars I played and I told him I had played them. He shouted "yes but you have to play them properly" ... I played the 2 trills again and I asked him where I was wrong, I wanted to learn how to play them properly. He did not answer but he kept shouting we were wasting time. He went on for like 10 minutes, then he told me : "you should not get angry if I say to you these things" ... I really was not angry, he was clearly angry at me.
I asked him if I could prepare for the next time one piece I like, but he assigned me 5 pieces from the beyer, and the Bach Prelude. I told him I could sight read the prelude, but he told me I had to practice it for the next time.
He also started to explaining me the keys. He explained the Do major and SOL major keys, and how the intervals worked. Then he told me for the next lesson I had to wtite down all the correct key signatures. I told him if he wanted I could write them down for him at that moment, but he got angry again and he told me I had to reflect it for one week.

This is just as bad. He should not have treated you like this.
The series of events surrounding the Scarlatti piece in particular reads "bad teacher" to me. From what I can understand, he seemed to be trying to tell you not to play pieces he didn't tell you to play and was as harsh as possible about your playing in order to get that message across. It's truly an embarrassing thing for a teacher to do.

Before the end of the lesson I told him if I could ask him a couple of things about the Beethoven Sonate n.8 second movement, which I found it beautiful and wanted to talk about the key signature and some other things I found in the piece, but he did not let me ask becaus he said that was a piece the pianists study after 8 years of piano.

That is absurd. I suppose you could theoretically say that the pathetique sonata should only be learned after 8 years, but many people will progress faster than that and be ready much earlier. Learning the 2nd movement alone can be done much before that; arguably in the first year. With your repertoire, it's entirely fine to give it a go.

I was beginning to think if I was doing something wrong. So I am asking if you think I should look for another teacher. I felt very unconfortable with the first 2, but maybe I am doing something wrong and I am asking for unacceptable things ?

It doesn't seem like you're doing anything wrong, but it's impossible to know for certain without hearing you play. You certainly aren't asking for anything unreasonable. As one of the most experienced teachers on this forum put it, "a teacher should always build up the student and never break them down." (https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=65615)

I hope this has helped!

[lostinidlewonder]

Maybe it's the country you live in but why are the teachers teaching if they are angry? That's quite ridiculous. If they really love teaching and piano music it should be a joy for them to help you learn.

Also you have to be wary that you might be misinterpreting "anger" for something else. Post a video or audio of your playing and we can let you know if it's so bad it makes us angry lol.