Much piano pedagogy is psychological. Thoughts?

[Derek]

Hello,

According to many professors and professionals it would seem that there is a distinction between finger-strength playing and arm weight.

However it seems to me that these are two different ways of talking about the same thing, and I think that arm-weight is even a bit deceptive. However psychologically it helps one to broaden one's sense of touch.

I mean think about it. If one does NOT use finger strength, then logically when one "drops" ones fingers onto the keys they would collapse and slide off the keyboard.  If you let your arms's weight rest on a key, how are you holding your hands up? by magic? no! you're using finger strength.


My point is, perhaps a lot of pedagogical ideas and teaching methods are realy psychological and often avoid talking about whats REALLY going on physically.  It seems to me that both approaches can work in different people. For me, both ways of thinking about it seem to work well for broadening my sense of touch and technique.

[jeff]

yeah, i totally agree. firstly, we can't be aware of everything that is happening in our body (nor do we need to - although some knowledge can be helpful). it would make more sense for teachers to ask students to "feel like they are pressing the keys by using the weight of their arms and gravity" or "feel like their fingers are strong".
think of how a person can be hypnotised into believing they are eating an apple when they are actually eating an onion.

[lostinidlewonder]

This sorta makes me think of the different volumes in piano. pppp-fffff for instance. When i was taught about all the different volumes, i found it so difficult when for instance i played a peice which went from ppp to pp. How on earth do you feel that physical change?

That is when i focused on this
pppp-Very tips of fingers (means everything that passes this point travelling up the arm and though the body should not have any weight weight causeing effect on the finger)

ppp- first knuckles
pp- second knuckles
p- 3rd larger knuckles
mf- inside palm of hand
f- wrist
ff- forearm
fff-arm up to shoulder
ffff-back

To me you are not really playing with these parts of the body, but if you visualise the energy coming from these places, you dont have to get so overly tied up about what you are doing physically. It also helps lots of my students who get confused over how volume should be created. This "constant" factor
gives them some confidence.

Utilisation of the arm, to control form, arpeggio movement etc is another story. But i think most definatly you can control volume control like this.

[ramseytheii]

Hello,

According to many professors and professionals it would seem that there is a distinction between finger-strength playing and arm weight.

However it seems to me that these are two different ways of talking about the same thing, and I think that arm-weight is even a bit deceptive. However psychologically it helps one to broaden one's sense of touch.
I mean think about it. If one does NOT use finger strength, then logically when one "drops" ones fingers onto the keys they would collapse and slide off the keyboard.  If you let your arms's weight rest on a key, how are you holding your hands up? by magic? no! you're using finger strength.
My point is, perhaps a lot of pedagogical ideas and teaching methods are realy psychological and often avoid talking about whats REALLY going on physically.  It seems to me that both approaches can work in different people. For me, both ways of thinking about it seem to work well for broadening my sense of touch and technique.

These are actually interesting points, and they support my hypothesis, that one cannot direct the body to do that much.  Beyond a few fundamental and basic directions, the body will not respond to micro management.  Except in the cases of those people who are more interested in micro managing their body, then they are in creating music.  I am sure we have all heard those people playing at point or another.
That being said,  these methods and ideas often get more complicated and detailed than is necessary.  We have a body, that when we sit down, gravity pushes on us, and we balance on our tail bone.  We balance our spine on our tail bone.  Then we lift our hands to the keys, and if our body is at all involved, we may lean forward slighlty, and when the fingertips touch the key, the weight of gravity is counterbalanced by the fingertips.
Interestingly the fingertips are pushing in the same direction as gravity, but keeping us up instead of pushing us down.
Finger strength is nominatively meaningless.  Practice for years and years, and see if your fingers have gotten bulky with muscle.  It is the hand that becomes bulky with muscle.  We are concerned not with finger strength, but finger independence.  It is the true art of piano playing, why, because it relates to the true art of music, counterpoint, polyphony, simultaneous happenings, comprehensive simultaneous happenings of different or somewhat related events, ideas, philosophies, whatever.  It is only natural that the true technique, should reflect what is true in the art.

It is important to know a few fundamental things physically, things we can give names to, like how to touch the keyboard in the first place - like Godowsky said, a "pulling" touch.  Beyond that we do not need to give that many directions.  We can discover then how the rest of the body relates to the independence of the fingers, in their infinite choreographical possibilities.  For example, in arpeggios that we desire to be even in sound and rhythm, we realize the help of the elbow, if we employ the right touch, and search for the right touch on every note.  There are many more such cases like that, as many cases as there are possibilties for the fingers to make music.

Walter Ramsey

[maxy]

Hello,

According to many professors and professionals it would seem that there is a distinction between finger-strength playing and arm weight.

However it seems to me that these are two different ways of talking about the same thing, and I think that arm-weight is even a bit deceptive. However psychologically it helps one to broaden one's sense of touch.

I mean think about it. If one does NOT use finger strength, then logically when one "drops" ones fingers onto the keys they would collapse and slide off the keyboard.  If you let your arms's weight rest on a key, how are you holding your hands up? by magic? no! you're using finger strength.


My point is, perhaps a lot of pedagogical ideas and teaching methods are realy psychological and often avoid talking about whats REALLY going on physically.  It seems to me that both approaches can work in different people. For me, both ways of thinking about it seem to work well for broadening my sense of touch and technique.

There is a difference between using arm weight and using "attack speed" from the fingers.