I have a big problem in my playing, please help.

[evergreen]

Hello everyone,

I am in desperate need of some advice. I will try to keep it short.
I am an 19 year old woman from the Netherlands. I grew up in a musical family, my dad being a drummer and my mother being a pianist. I started piano lessons at 7, quit at 12, then started again at 16. Since I was 16, I discovered classical piano & classical music in general and fell in love with it.

The next two years, I learned Beethoven op. 27 no.2  mvt. 1&2, Beethoven Pathetique mvt. 1&2, Clair de Lune, Debussy's 1st arabesque, Bach invention no.8, Chopin op.32 no.1, Mozart k.282 mvt.3, Rachmaninoff op.23 no 3&5 (And performed the no.5!). Since then playing the piano has brought me so much joy. I am also studying music therapy right now, and it's wonderful to incorporate my love for music with my interest in psychology.

BUT. The last 3 years, I've only had 3 piano lessons. Those were 3 lessons/masterclasses, 3 hours long, with my old teacher. I am sadly in a position where I cannot afford regular lessons. All of the pieces above I have learned on my own, with some advice from my mother.

At first, I was doing pretty fine without lessons and just 'teaching myself' these pieces. But now I feel as if I'm stuck. When I play through a piece, like, say, the Pathetique 1st movement, I NEVER feel in control. It seems as if my playing is always rushed. I always go too fast, and I can never play through a piece without having at least 2 memory slips or mistakes. Today it happened again as I was practicing in the practice room at school. I had filmed myself as I played the Rach op.23 no.3 and the 1st mvt. of the Pathetique and it was just really, really bad playing. I feel so discouraged and ashamed of my playing.

I love the pieces I am playing, but I do want to do justice to them and not butcher them. As of now, I'm more often than not rushing through them and making many mistakes. I feel like an incomplete pianist. It also takes me 3/4+ months to learn 4 pages of music. I cannot sightread very well and it takes me ages to even learn 1 piece. That is another huge problem, because I want to play more and expand my repertoire.

I just feel bad right now. As if I will never play the pieces I love beautifully. I know getting a teacher would be a tremendous help. But I am nowhere near able to take piano lessons, as I am a student and live on my own. How do I handle these problems? The main problems being that I don't feel in control at all while I'm playing and the other one being that learning a new piece takes me multiple months.

Maybe the answer is in another practice routine, picking easier-to-handle pieces for my level, listening to myself play more often... I don't know. I would love some advice, because playing this wonderful instrument that is the piano is one of my greatest passions.

Please help. Thank you very much in advance.

If you want to hear me play to get a better picture of where I'm at, please visit my piano instagram @marenphilipsepiano

[brogers70]

Don't underestimate how much time you have to learn the piano. At 19 you can expect to be playing for another 50 or 60 years. There's no need to be in a hurry to get to specific, advanced repertoire. No need at all. I'd suggest reducing the difficulty of your pieces. Choose things that you can get to a level such that you would feel comfortable playing the piece for a good friend after a month. Given what you have played so far, there are certainly lots of beautiful pieces that you can master within a month. Say, some individual dance movements from the Bach Suites and Partitas, some of the early Haydn sonatas, Schubert waltzes or Laendler, some of the Brahms waltzes, plenty of Scarlatti sonatas. Having to spend months and months on a piece without really feeling comfortable will grind you down and reduce your motivation, as you have found out. On the other hand, playing pieces that are relatively easy for you and that you can master quickly will just make you feel so much more comfortable and at ease with the piano. The piano will be a friend instead of an enemy or taskmaster. I've been right where you are stuck, and what helped me was to take a year and play nothing but very, very easy pieces as musically, beautifully, and comfortably as possible. After that year I gradually increased the difficulty of my repertoire, but even now, 8 years later, I still find that it helps to plan a recital that consists mostly of things that are technically comfortable for me. I do work on more difficult things to stretch my technique, but it is just so helpful to spend a lot of time playing music you feel confident with. Good luck. I'm envious of all the time you have in front of you.

[bryfarr]

I noticed you have a post from Nov 2023 stating similar questions and frustrations.  I didn't check if there were answers - I assume not, since you're posting the same questions again.
Well, I will step up and try to answer them for you - - questions from both posts.
I listened to a few of your instagram posts:
IMO, given your age of 19, you are not prepared for a piano performance degree (solo or ensemble) at a conservatory.  You are not going to have a career playing or teaching on a university level.  Maybe if you studied piano hard for 4 years, got a bachelors in music, you could get a job teaching beginners.  It's a tough competitive field.  Very accomplished pianists come out of conservatories and have to teach beginners and intermediates at community music schools and if they have business acumen, privately.
I recommend you focus on piano music from an appreciation standpoint - it can be a lifelong journey of improving and exploring the repertoire.
You can get a lot of instruction support from the online community.  Here and especially on facebook - some of the piano groups.  There are many enthusiasts there who give good feedback.
For example, I noticed you sped up in your Bach 2 part invention - so you need to work with the metronome, just like every other piano student with serious aspirations.
For another example, your technique is a bit stiff - are you practicing scales, arpeggios, octaves found in Hanon's Virtuoso pianist (and other books)? That is basic technique.
You mention your mother is a jazz pianist who plays classical occasionally. Was your mother classically trained?  If so, I would ask her for some feedback.  It will only take 15 minutes for her to listen and give some pointers.
Eventually you'll be able to hire a teacher. 
Try to relax and stay grounded  :-)
~ good luck

[evergreen]

Thanks to both of you for the reply!
Brogers70, that is some very good advice. I will reduse the difficulty of my repertoire. Actually, I'm working on a Scarlatti sonata right now and it doesn't take me ages to learn a page of it. It's a much more positive learning process. I won't try to learn the pieces that are out of my league right now, I can get to them later.

IMO, given your age of 19, you are not prepared for a piano performance degree (solo or ensemble) at a conservatory.  You are not going to have a career playing or teaching on a university level.  Maybe if you studied piano hard for 4 years, got a bachelors in music, you could get a job teaching beginners.  It's a tough competitive field.  Very accomplished pianists come out of conservatories and have to teach beginners and intermediates at community music schools and if they have business acumen, privately.
I recommend you focus on piano music from an appreciation standpoint - it can be a lifelong journey of improving and exploring the repertoire.

Thank you for the response! I am certainly not aspiring to go to a conservatory (but you're right, a few months ago in 2023 I was considering it and made a post about it). I want to make a career as a music therapist. Piano is 'just' my biggest hobby, and I'm definitely not aspiring to be a performing pianist or a piano teaching. Although playing the piano is an important factor in my music therapy career. Thank you for the very good advice to focus on piano from an appreciation standpoint. I have tot change my mindset from wanting to learn all my favorite (very difficult) pieces to just appreciating this wonderful instrument, and taking all the time I need by learning some easier pieces.

You can get a lot of instruction support from the online community.  Here and especially on facebook - some of the piano groups.  There are many enthusiasts there who give good feedback.
For example, I noticed you sped up in your Bach 2 part invention - so you need to work with the metronome, just like every other piano student with serious aspirations.
For another example, your technique is a bit stiff - are you practicing scales, arpeggios, octaves found in Hanon's Virtuoso pianist (and other books)? That is basic technique.
You mention your mother is a jazz pianist who plays classical occasionally. Was your mother classically trained?  If so, I would ask her for some feedback.  It will only take 15 minutes for her to listen and give some pointers.

Thanks for the feedback, I will definitely get the metronome out more often. And yes, I'm working on scales, arpeggios, technique etc but I may have to put some more time into that. Or start using the Hanon method more. The Facebook groups are also a very good option, I might join a few. And yes, my mother was classically trained, but the last few years she hasn't been playing very much. Although she knows enough of the piano to give me some good advice

When I read back the post I posted yesterday, I have to say that I was in a bit of a desperate mood and was angry at myself. Then I got a good night's sleep, and now I feel a lot more calm about it. I will focus on learning easier pieces for now and work on my sight-reading and technique. Thank you so much for the advice and the face that you reassured me.

Oh, and I'm sorry if my English is bad, as I said, I'm Dutch

[quantum]

IMO, given your age of 19, you are not prepared for a piano performance degree (solo or ensemble) at a conservatory.  You are not going to have a career playing or teaching on a university level. 

I think such a statement is rather brash and presumptuous. 

We have someone here that is looking for advice, and you post such a discouraging and unnecessary remark.



To the OP,

Your repertoire is at a level which is acceptable for university auditions at many schools.  You don't need to be chasing a career as a concert pianist in order to become a professional musician.  You don't need to be the kid that performed the Liszt B minor at the age of 9, and Rach 3 by the age of 16, in order to get into music school.  There is more to music than the concertizing lifestyle.  Music has many varied paths, so look into them. 

For university auditions, what they are looking for is that the candidate has potential to succeed in the program they applied for.  They are not expecting you to be a fully polished musician. 

Finding a teacher is important, as you are well aware, but in your current situation you need to find the joy in teaching yourself.  The point of studying with a teacher is not to become dependent on them whenever you are faced with a problem, but rather to learn how to think and reason like a teacher, so you will eventually be able to work out problems by yourself (and perhaps pass this knowledge on to others in the future).

If you are faced with a problem that is too overwhelming, break it down into smaller sections.  You mention sight reading.  For example, work on sight reading pieces that are well below your technique level.  Work on sight reading fundamentals, such as reading ahead and identifying groups of familiar things.

You mention you are interested in music therapy.  I would recommend studying improvisation, it is a skill that can be put to good use in that field.  There are a number of improvisers here on Pianostreet, so it is a good place to ask questions about it. 

Listing to some of your recordings, I get the sense you are preoccupied with technique.  Try to work on elements of musical expression such as phrasing and line.  Also try to work on making videos of complete pieces, not just short clips.  It will help you get in the mindset of preparing and presenting a complete piece. 

[quantum]

Look up Gert van Hoef, he is from your part of the world.  Most of his musical journey is documented on YouTube, including some of the very first videos.  Watch some of those, then watch the most recent ones. 

You might be interested in this one, which he talks about part of his musical journey.

It is possible to succeed if you put dedication into your work.  The path each person takes in music can be unique and lead to unexpected places.  Don't get discouraged if you face challenges along the way.

[bryfarr]

SYSTEM ERROR

[kosulin]

I am not a teacher, but have a strong feeling that if you are having issues with keeping a stable tempo, in addition to scales with metronome, etc., you might want to play some Bach to improve your sense of rhythm. And Reicha for polyrhythms. Also with metronome. And count in your head, this should improve your mental sense of rhythms.

[morrisjd]

Concerning learning without sight reading.  Learn the piece from the start a few measures at a time and commit them to memory, playing them slow at first.  Do something else (e.g. wash dishes, practice something else, pet the cat) for an hour or more before you come back and play the same sequence (hopefully from memory) again.  If you have it comfortably in memory, then commit the next few measures to memory by repeating the above process.  Over time, your brain will be transferring information you acquired in short term memory into your long term memory through this process.  You will also be training your muscle (memory) to handle the music and you will be able to bring it up to tempo over time assuming your fingering is correct.  If you want, you can learn various portions of the piece out of sequence and then put them together later.  For example, you may skip a very difficult section to learn easier sections before and after it and then pay special attention to the difficult passage which may have tricky fingering.
But, and this is a very big but.  You must find a teacher.  Not just any teacher but a teacher that understands you and how to teach you.  I was extremely lucky in this regard and had a teacher at the university music department who provided private lessons.  I took lessons from her for about 6 years.  I learned the proper technique, and she also selected music appropriate to my skill level at the time.  Things like Beethoven's Pathétique.  Having the right teacher is essential. There is no substitute or work around for this.  Teachers are repositories of all the skills and techniques of the past generations of skilled pianists.  They transfer that skill to you and understand based on how you play how to correct your faults and provide you with the proper technique.  A good example would be a piece that requires special fingering.  You may learn that piece slowly with what you think is good fingering only to find out that you cannot bring the piece up to speed.  It's things like this that you can only get from a very good teacher.  Trust me on this.  Unless you are some sort of Paganini like person, you will not develop the correct technique and this will hamper your playing without the advice tailored to your needs that is provided by a teacher.