Fingering help pt 2

[riffwraith]

Hi all

For a beginner who does not want to get into bad habits, and form good ones, is it better to do:

52121212

-or-

53131313

-or-

52141412

Thanks in advance.

[quantum]

52121212
or
53131313

Which ever one fits your hand better.  These fingering patterns tend to be more adaptable, for when the harmonies change. 


As for 52141412, I think it creates unneeded shifting of the hand.  It would also be inefficient if the passage were an allegro or faster. 

[brogers70]

Personally, I like 52141412, because of the hand shifts, I think they help you avoid getting your hand locked into an extended, tense position. There are a bunch of arpeggios like that in Brahms' version of the Bach d minor Chaconne for the left hand, and they are much easier to play with the hand shifts, at least for me.

[riffwraith]

52141412, I think it creates unneeded shifting of the hand

I like 52141412, because of the hand shifts

Ha!

Thanks both. How would a teacher instruct a young student to finger this?

[brogers70]

52141412, I think it creates unneeded shifting of the hand

I like 52141412, because of the hand shifts

Ha!

Thanks both. How would a teacher instruct a young student to finger this?

I'm an old student, but when I used the "hand shift" fingering for similar fast arpeggios in the left hand transcription of the Chaconne, my teacher thought it was fine. I think it depends on what feels comfortable, how big your hands are, how much of a tendency you have to lock your hand in an extended position. For me, anything that gets me to move my wrist and arm helps prevent tension, so I think of those hand shifts as a positive.

[quantum]

Thanks both. How would a teacher instruct a young student to finger this?

If young student refers to a person with small hands that is still growing, use a fingering that best fits the hand.  However, as soon as the hand grows to an appropriate dimension,  switch to using 52121212 or
53131313. 


As to stretch vs shift: for extended repetitive patterns holding a stretch is less fatiguing than the compounded actions required to do repeated shifting in this note pattern.  Think of how dancers or athletes can hold stretched positions, and still perform other complex physical actions while in the stretched position.  People can have varying degrees of flexibility, but what one should aim for is a stretch that is not tight or strained, rather one that is elastic, fluid and relaxed.  The sensation of being relaxed in a stretch does come with practice and time. 

[newperson]

Understanding that I am just a new person here:

I personally like brogers70 fingering better.  However, Quantum's fingering also works well for those that have a hand that can handle this fingering.

Think of Chopin etude no 1 op 10.  Here Chopin believed the hand should be extended and contracted many times within a few second period.  Here, in this Chopin etude, if you try to keep you hand always extended, you will have great difficulty playing this piece.  But in Beethoven op 90 sonata first movement, with the difficult Alberti bass in the LH that spans a 10th (starting measure 55), the hand MUST remain extended.

[riffwraith]

TY!

[newperson]

Hi all

For a beginner who does not want to get into bad habits, and form good ones, is it better to do:

52121212

-or-

53131313

-or-

52141412

Thanks in advance.

A little context might be helpful:

1) Where did this musical excerpt come from?
2) Where did your fingering suggestions come from?

[keypeg]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is whether pedal is applied.

I didn't see the post because if it's a beginner or student asking about fingering, I'd be more inclined to look in the "student" section than "performance".

[lelle]

I'd probably do 53131313 but I think 52141412 is a perfectly valid choice too. It really depends on what suits your particular hand and body and provides you with the maximum ease and fluency.