Learn tuning with tuning device (like Reyburng Cybertuner)...

[alessandro]

Hello everyone,
I just wanted to share the state I'm in, regarding my wish, will, ambition to learn to tune piano's with a tuning device.   First of all, some background information about myself.  I am 54 years, working full time in an insurance company.  I have always been interested in piano's and finished a few years ago a brief course in piano technique and tuning, an evening course, twice a week, over two years.   Here in Belgium, there is no such thing as school to learn pianotuning (as there is in neighbouring countries Germany, France, Netherlands etc.)...   But I think, even if I don't consider myself as being an ambitious or over confident type of person, I could learn the process myself.   Now, before I start describing the state I'm in (explaining the support and feedback I'm secretly hoping for), I have to say that I am (1°) yet not really an expert in hearing the (in)famous "beats" that go together with the intervals.  I can hear them quite clearly in 90 % of the cases but... and I hope this will not sound shocking or plain stupid, I am really, but really fed up with the 100% aural tuning method.  I have now received in loan the Reyburn Cybertuner app from our friendly local pianoparts salesman for the period of one month.   And even if I really admire and am in awe of the designers of this app, I looked at the very rare tutorials on You Tube (they are really rare, isn't it ?), and it always surprises me that even in these tutorials, there is talk like "this interval should have more like a small five beats per second, but in my ears it now sounds like a big four beats and not a small five beats per second etc."...  waving with the hands...   I am fed up with this type of subjectivities and I do really intend to put my trust for 99% in a tuning device.    To state it differently, put ten tuners in one room, start talking about intervals, even on a really basic level, and one would immediately witness an endless discussion in which everyone is more or less right and wrong at the same time.   I realise that persons like myself, the mediocre pianists, can have the most critic when my own piano has been tuned, but now, I found a tuner (retired shortly), who uses this Cybertuner App, and I really find the tuning among the bests.   Piano sounds really nice and moreover, even if small changes can appear after a few weeks, months, I really find the tuning stable (I realise this sounds contradictory, but I mean every single word of what I'm saying ; it remains overall nicely stable for a good period of time...)   I want to make clear that I am still very interested in temperament in tuning, but it's as if I would never be enough confident and happy of the tuning that I would do myself "by ear"...  And I don't want to use a tuning app or device as a kind of support neither, I just want to tune piano's completely with an app ; this appears to be to me the best, most efficient way to tune a piano and to avoid a the same time, endless hesitation, endless corrections etc...   So far the background information !
Now, this Reyburn Cybertuner app, looks to me like the most interesting and fascinating tool there is on the market.  But the price of it... (>1000 euros + 85 euros a year for updates) is particularly high.   So now I'm hoping that I can try one or two other tuning devices.  My second idea would be to try Entropy (my pianoparts man doesn't sell Entropy, hope to find it somewhere).   What would be a good third choice of App, that is able to aim for a nicely equally tempered, smart tuning ?  And another question, are there any users of Reyburn Cybertuner on this forum, that felt also quite overwhelmed when having this app for the first time in their hands ? Are you really feeling that you get the best out of it ? Or, would you on the other hand have the impression that you don't use its true potentials ? Or is it just plainly overrated ? I can imagine that one may consider the Reyburn Cybertuner not the best option for a "beginner" in tuning.  But since I find the overall pleasant temperament one of the most important things in tuning, together with a nice overall stability, I have the impression that the Reyburn Cybertuner is very intelligently conceived.   I am really full of courage and optimism, and would like to train myself on hundreds of piano's before I would tune the piano of a person that I would have never met before.   If you would have bits of advice for me, don't hesitate to share them.   Because I really could use some ideas and words of encouragement !  I hope I can find and convince one or two pianodealers/tuners to initiate me in the art of tuning with a tuning device in my neigbourhood.   Kind greetings to you, pianolovers !

[quantum]

Learning to tune takes time, it's a skill just like learning to play the piano.  Don't get discouraged if you can't get the hang of it quickly.  Be patient, and work at achieving gradual progress. 

I have not used Cybertuner, but I do use tuning software.  I learned to tune aurally, and did so for many years before considering to use software.  Here is why I use tuning software: less time spent tuning, greater consistency in tuning, ability to do sectional tunings as environmental conditions may only affect certain sections of the piano, ability to observe changes in tuning on my own piano (it has allowed me to make detailed notes on strings that have a greater tendency to drift). 

Here is what I do not do with tuning software: rely on it to produce a perfect tuning (I always aurally confirm the tuning, if there is a discrepancy I usually go with my ears not the software). 


Suggestions.  Continue to  practice tuning unisons in the centre of the keyboard.  Preferably choose strings that do not have any false beats in the unison.  Practice only for short periods 5 to 10 mins, then rest.  Even if you do end up using tuning software, it is very likely you will still need to tune unisons aurally.  Practice tuning frequently, but with short manageable sessions.  Remember to take breaks from listening to tuning beats. 

Before investing in paid tuning software, try some of the free options.  See if it helps you first before spending your money.  After you have practised tuning with software, examine if that software brought any improvement to your tuning abilities.  If you find that you are still struggling with the same tasks, you would need to re-evaluate your approach to learning tuning. 

Break down the problem into small manageable parts.  You raised a lot of questions in your post.  Tackle one small problem at a time, then move on to the next.  Be methodical and focused.  Don't worry that you find the big picture challenging at the moment, progress will come if you are diligent and patient. 

[quantum]

[...] and it always surprises me that even in these tutorials, there is talk like "this interval should have more like a small five beats per second, but in my ears it now sounds like a big four beats and not a small five beats per second etc."...  waving with the hands...   I am fed up with this type of subjectivities and I do really intend to put my trust for 99% in a tuning device.    To state it differently, put ten tuners in one room, start talking about intervals, even on a really basic level, and one would immediately witness an endless discussion in which everyone is more or less right and wrong at the same time.   

Don't worry about this stuff yet.  It is like a person learning to play their first scale and triad at the piano, then stressing out that they don't understand discussions about interpretation choices of the Hammerklavier sonata.  You will get there in time, but at the moment these details are just causing unneeded confusion.  Learn to appreciate listening to the Hammerklavier as music first.