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Topic: Hamelin or Liszt?  (Read 2012 times)

Offline thierry13

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Hamelin or Liszt?
on: February 28, 2005, 05:47:22 PM
Some says Hamelin is the greatest technician of all the history of the keyboards. But Liszt too was called the greatest technician of the keyboards... so, to your opinions, who's the better technician, Hamelin or Liszt ??

Offline bernhard

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #1 on: February 28, 2005, 07:08:03 PM
Anyone listening to the CDs of both pianists should have no doubt whatsoever in this matter. And comparing their live performances would sure reinforce your conclusions in the matter. ;D ;)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline DarkWind

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #2 on: February 28, 2005, 07:30:38 PM
I actually have a (supposed) piano roll recording of Liszt playing his 2nd Etude from the 3 Concert Etudes.

Offline Brian Healey

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #3 on: February 28, 2005, 08:32:21 PM
Actually, it's believed by many that Charles Alkan's technique surpassed that of Liszt. Of course, it's impossible to really know for sure.

Hey darkwind, have you ever heard the roll? I would imagine that considering its age, it's a collector's item, and it would be shady business to try and play it (especially since during Liszt's time, it would have been a paper roll--very fragile), but I'm curious. It would be cool to actually hear the man "play."


Peace in the middle east,
Bri

Offline Ed Marlo

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #4 on: March 01, 2005, 06:40:43 PM
I'd sell my third arm to hear that piano roll..

Offline thierry13

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #5 on: March 02, 2005, 02:09:29 AM
Bernard, i know to you this question can sound stupid, but there was a lot of reported facts of what liszt was able to do, the amazing things he did. I think there is enough material there to debate about both pianists.

Offline Motrax

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #6 on: March 02, 2005, 07:34:37 PM
Piano rolls barely show much about a pianist, unfortunately. Ignoring such factors as pedalling and dynamics, which are quite impossible to reproduce (dynamics varies from piano to piano, room accoustics, etc; pedalling on piano rolls is crude - either up or down, with nothing in between, at least on the older rolls), something as simple as hitting all the right notes is generally tough to tell. Rolls were edited before they were released, since it's very easy to correct note mistakes by punching holes on the correct notes and sealing over the wrong notes.

Bernhard is right - you really need to listen to both of them live in order to make the comparison.  :)
"I always make sure that the lid over the keyboard is open before I start to play." --  Artur Schnabel, after being asked for the secret of piano playing.

Offline pianonut

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #7 on: March 02, 2005, 07:55:00 PM
i'll let you know which one is the better looking.  i'm going to hear him on saturday night (for the first time) in reading, pennsylvania.  tickets are $15-50.  he's playing the busoni concerto.  if i haven't said that already.  anyway, i suppose for those of you who have heard him, it's a done deal.  for me, i'm really really excited because of all the good things i'm hearing about his playing.  should i get some flowers?  do men even like flowers?  what do you do if you really like a guys playing? 

oh, i just don't know.  will he sign my program?  or will he scurry off and never be seen backstage?  will i catch a glimpse of him (my new cary grant) driving off in a limosine?

ps cool about the piano roll!  i didn't realize the very old ones were paper.  is it possible to duplicate old rolls.  i vaguely remember a tv show that was about a library that was saving old rolls, but i don't remember what they did, other than keep them in air tight containers.
do you know why benches fall apart?  it is because they have lids with little tiny hinges so you can store music inside them.  hint:  buy a bench that does not hinge.  buy it for sturdiness.

Offline LVB op.57

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #8 on: March 02, 2005, 10:31:41 PM
All we have to go by with Liszt is what we've read about his great playing. We never actually heard it however, so we can't judge.

Offline bernhard

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #9 on: March 03, 2005, 12:09:50 AM
Bernard, i know to you this question can sound stupid, but there was a lot of reported facts of what liszt was able to do, the amazing things he did. I think there is enough material there to debate about both pianists.

I am not quite sure if the question is stupid, but I am curious to know what  are you going to do with the answer.

Let us say that a Time Machine became available, and we could hear both Hamelin and Liszt live. Putting aside the whole problem of what exactly we would be comparing and what criteria of assessment would be acceptable by everyone (and should they play in the same piano?), I can see three possible outcomes:

1. Liszt is better than Hamelin
2. Hamelin is better than Liszt.
3 They are equally good.

and then...?

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline willcowskitz

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #10 on: March 03, 2005, 03:49:36 AM
I am also ultimately bored of topics of pure speculative nature.

The fact that, ironically, the first sound recording device was created a decade before Liszt passed away and so could never reach the average people's homes for yet longer time, is like a joke by God himself. If we'd get to hear Liszt play, it would probably be a disappointment no matter what, looking at the level of divinity that people have raised Liszt to by all the wild stories about his playing. He's a legend, leave it at that. His playing was probably supernatural, but there's absolutely no need, nor interest, to speculate whether he was the ultimate best pianist ever to walk to Earth. This kind of talk just sounds to me like a whole lot of people are interested in wrong things, missing the point of what Liszt is, as a human being, a composer, an artist, a pianist, a personality. There's something called sports for those of us who want to define the peak of human physique and what can be achieved by it.

Offline pianonut

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #11 on: March 03, 2005, 04:01:12 AM
the first thing i watch is how someone walks out on stage.  i've got it in my mind that liszt was not only a performer, he was sort of an actor, too.  i think he would walk out rather boldy, sit down at the piano, act like he was going to play something, and suddenly turn toward the audience and say 'gotcha.' (or just turn and get a meditative expression - hooking eyes with someone)

hamelin.  well, i don't know yet.  if i see women swooning all around, i would say, yes, he is liszt reincarnated (i don't belive that stuff) but i rather expect that he will walk  out in the same manner but be more matter of fact when he plays (ie richter?).  i really don't know.
do you know why benches fall apart?  it is because they have lids with little tiny hinges so you can store music inside them.  hint:  buy a bench that does not hinge.  buy it for sturdiness.

Offline pianiststrongbad

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #12 on: March 03, 2005, 07:15:37 AM
Tatum, and Liszt are the best were the best in my opinion.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Hamelin or Liszt?
Reply #13 on: March 03, 2005, 02:55:31 PM
Listen I only wanted to debate on a subjet for fun not getting those kinds of answers.

-------------------
Let us say that a Time Machine became available, and we could hear both Hamelin and Liszt live. Putting aside the whole problem of what exactly we would be comparing and what criteria of assessment would be acceptable by everyone (and should they play in the same piano?), I can see three possible outcomes:

1. Liszt is better than Hamelin
2. Hamelin is better than Liszt.
3 They are equally good.

---------------

This was not a question that i search the answer, only a fun subject to debate and to talk about the exploits of those two mans.
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