Bach Prelude in C

[lynnicks]

I know there have been numerous posts about this piece but I wonder if that's because the maority of teachers aren't teaching it properly.
In any case, I am an adult learner and I have had multiple teachers, because they were not teaching me any technique. While I was trying to learn Prelude in C, I was told that none of the notes should sound louder than the others. However, exactly how to do this, was not fully explained. I experimented but never quite got it. How is this done?

[brogers70]

You are probably talking about the Prelude from the first book of the Well-Tempered Clavier, but that's only a guess since you do not say.

One suggestion as to how to get the notes to have a more consistent dynamic is to work on just a single one of the arpeggios. Settle on your fingering. Then do completely the opposite of your goal. Play it a few times making the first note much louder than the others, then the second, then the third, etc. Then work on making the difference between the louder note and the others smaller and smaller, listening very carefully, until you are happy that they are equal in volume.

If that's not helpful at first, just work on one hand doing a scale CDEFGGFEDC, doing the same thing. Plan to emphasize one of the notes a lot, and then reduce the emphasis until it sounds equal to the others.

Give it a try. I often find that starting out doing the extreme opposite of what I want and then working towards what I want gradually helps my body figure out what it need to do to control the sound. This kind of control takes time to develop, so don't get frustrated.

[vandoren]

Personally, I like to include some dynamic shape so that the phrases breath rather than aiming for strictly the same dynamics for each note. 

[brogers70]

Personally, I like to include some dynamic shape so that the phrases breath rather than aiming for strictly the same dynamics for each note.

I agree with you, and apart from shaping phrases one can also focus on individual lines that Bach has hidden by voicing up particular notes in each arpeggio, say, bring out a tenor line by voicing up the second 16th in each arpeggio. The OP, however, seemed to be a beginning student having trouble keeping a consistent volume throughout each arpeggio without having individual notes stick out randomly. Before they can do nice things with phrasing and voicing they need to work on getting the control necessary to play at a consistent volume when they want to.

[dizzyfingers]

I know there have been numerous posts about this piece but I wonder if that's because the maority of teachers aren't teaching it properly.
In any case, I am an adult learner and I have had multiple teachers, because they were not teaching me any technique. While I was trying to learn Prelude in C, I was told that none of the notes should sound louder than the others. However, exactly how to do this, was not fully explained. I experimented but never quite got it. How is this done?

That idea, "none of the notes should sound louder than the others", is a challenging objective for a beginner, it requires a lot of control over the hands/fingers, and usually takes years of practice.  Perhaps the teacher was trying to point out that some notes were extreme in loudness/articulation in relation to the ones preceding it.  Perhaps an objective of "smoothness of sound" where the loudness/articulation of one note is closely related to the one before it would be better.  This isn't easy but perhaps easier.

You can post a video of your playing here and we'll let you know how your technique is.

[pjslp17]

In the C major prelude of Bach WTC book 1, generally you want and are trying to make each note sound the same volume (loudness maybe I should say) for each note in the half measure, unless you are performing a crescendo or decrescendo, in which case you want controlled changes in volume. 

In the below link, Kindkaktus had difficulty with controlled evenness of tone in this Bach prelude.  I’m guessing you are having this same problem.  You may notice that many of your tones randomly come out way too soft or loud. 

The below link shows that Kindkaktus was able to overcome this problem.  Compare his first recording of this Bach prelude that shows very poor tone control with his last recording that shows greatly improved tone control.  Hopefully, Kindkaktus can shed some light on how he was able to make this improvement.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=68746.0

Good luck to you.

[pianistavt]

... While I was trying to learn Prelude in C, I was told that none of the notes should sound louder than the others ...

It's good to ask how things are done, it's good to try to play notes certain ways...
But I agree with other posters here - - don't lock yourself down with the idea "this is how it should be done" - this prelude can be interpreted many different ways - that's part of its magic.
For example, here is my "non-standard" interpretation.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CFnoA6HnMFA/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Note how the notes do not have the same loudness within the chordal phrase.
Personally, I disagree with your teacher and everyone who proffers that approach - it's pedantic.

[pjslp17]

I know there have been numerous posts about this piece but I wonder if that's because the maority of teachers aren't teaching it properly.
In any case, I am an adult learner and I have had multiple teachers, because they were not teaching me any technique. While I was trying to learn Prelude in C, I was told that none of the notes should sound louder than the others. However, exactly how to do this, was not fully explained. I experimented but never quite got it. How is this done?

The OP says “In any case, I am an adult learner and I have had multiple teachers, because they were not teaching me any technique. While I was trying to learn Prelude in C, I was told that none of the notes should sound louder than the others. However, exactly how to do this, was not fully explained. I experimented but never quite got it. How is this done?”. 

Words that caught my eye: “adult learner”, “they were not teaching me any technique” and “exactly how to do this, was not fully explained” where “how to do this” meaning – how to play so all the notes are played at the same loudness. 

So, the OP appears to not be able to play all the notes at the same volume because of a lack of technique. I’m guessing certain notes randomly and non-musically are played either too soft or too loud – almost spastically – due to a lack of technique. This is addressed in the link that I provided earlier.  Even if you feel that all the notes in a half measure should not be played at the same loudness – which I don’t have a problem if done musically and with good taste - the player should have the ABILITY to play all the notes at the same volume if he wanted to.  The OP does not appear to have this ability.

[dizzyfingers]

The OP says ...

And where is this OP, "lynnicks"?   ... a new account .. 1 post .. and then .. gone forever?
Did she read the responses?
Probably not - and where does that leave us ... all our wisdom, seeds scattered to the winds

[lelle]

And where is this OP, "lynnicks"?   ... a new account .. 1 post .. and then .. gone forever?
Did she read the responses?
Probably not - and where does that leave us ... all our wisdom, pearls before swine.

When I find I've posted in topics with this typ of OP, I take comfort in the fact that there are a lot of lurkers reading this forum to learn, and people finding their way from google who still benefit from reading everyone's perspectives in the replies!

[jonslaughter]

I know there have been numerous posts about this piece but I wonder if that's because the maority of teachers aren't teaching it properly.
In any case, I am an adult learner and I have had multiple teachers, because they were not teaching me any technique. While I was trying to learn Prelude in C, I was told that none of the notes should sound louder than the others. However, exactly how to do this, was not fully explained. I experimented but never quite got it. How is this done?

Never take anyone's teachings as absolute in any way. No one knows what the hell they are doing(basically). Simply take it as a suggestion as someone else mentioned. There is absolutely no right and wrong in music. Ok, there might be but don't worry about it.

There is no natural law in music that says if you do it wrong you will be struck by lightning. Most humans are quite insane and think they have everything figure out and if you don't listen to them then they hate you. (it's some god complex + fear + ...)

Music is progressive, like all things.  You get better the more you do it. Practice makes perfect is not an adage, it effectively is the "absolute way" I said don't worry about. The more you learn the more you see everything. It's like putting a puzzle together. At first you don't know where any pieces go but with a lot of work or luck you make a few chunks. Over time more and more pieces start to come together(this is basically topology at work and yoneda is the larger "big picture" understanding that forms).

You have to experiment. Why not try both ways? If you are told X is right and Y is wrong you either trust it on blind faith without having any clue why(and maybe the person saying it doesn't even know) or you try Y and X and compare them.

Now, in some things it is important that you not do Y. E.g., jumping off a 100ft cliff may be wrong unless you have a hang glider and are properly strapped in and have some experience. In music, you can always do Y. (that is one of the great things) Pretty much you cannot get hurt doing Y. Some will say it can ruin your technique, cause muscle problems, etc. None of it is true unless you are only doing Y. If you are doing X and Y then you will eventually realize X is better or Y is. You also will develop that internal compass to make such judgements.

When we are practicing piano it isn't just about memorizing notes and putting our fingers down. That is the first step but after you have them you start trying other things. That is the joy that comes from actually making music rather than recreating it. If you want to make music, you do variations and experimentations.

So, you say "What if I do that" and you try it. Then you get better for trying it.

You say "Ok, I want to do that, how do I do it?" and then you spend an hour or 10 weeks trying to figure it out. You are better for doing it.

A teacher can help and a teacher can hurt and they can do both at the same time. But you should never be afraid or resist experimenting with things in music. That is part of the fun.

E.g., In your case, you try it with dynamics and without. You then find out which one you like better. It is about figuring out what you like and figuring out how to achieve it.

If someone says "DON'T DO IT, DO IT THIS WAY" they are trying to impose upon you want they like. That isn't right. They are just being insane. In some sense they just want to control you or get you to listen to them. It isn't about them, it is about you. Now, if you are playing for them, as if you were cooking dinner for them, then you do it the way they want. But since you are taking lessons from them so you can play for yourself you do what you want. Of course you do need to listen to them because they may actually know something but you don't treat it as the word of god. Of course if they are demanding you do it their way and not showing you why it is better then likely they are a bad teacher.

My suggestion is that you sit at the piano for about 5 hours experimenting with various things in that piece. It is a great piece to experiment with. You can do about a millions things with it. You can learn a lot. This is the point of the piece. Bach is teaching you something. Do you know what it is? I bet you don't. If you spend a few years playing all the time you will understand what he is teaching. Bach is a great teacher! He teaches music without any words, the best way to learn!  [Of course all the masters were like this. They knew that the way to learn music was with music, not words]