Question on scales and a good process to learn

[mark eaton]

Greetings-

I have a question about scales.  I know there are some here that are 'pro' scales, and others that are not.

Background:  I am 64 years old; have played trumpet for 50 years and can read music pretty well.
I've played piano in the past year, albeit, more for fun in the boogie, blues, rock genres. More easier songs.

I have always loved classical music and want to shift gears for the next year to playing beginner/early intermediate classical, just for fun.
While I can play scales, a little, I want to be more deliberate and have a good process playing them.

There are of course many scale, arpeggios, cadence, and inversion books and I own a couple, but never really used or followed them.
So here lies my question.  If I want to start as a beginner in scales, etc., what would your recommendation be?

My thought, and I am sure it pales in what others here have done, is to:

-start with the major scales (using the circle of fifths); then move to minor scales
-follow some guidelines that will have me play scales parallel, contrary, 2 octaves, and chord cadences and 1st, 2nd inversions
-same for arpeggios up to 2 octaves
-practice a scale a week (or do I do a scale until I can memorize at a certain bpm, then move on?)

As for the rest of what I've been playing; I completed a 2nd method book, and now I am playing some technical etudes and exercises.
Additionally, I bought the first 3 books on the Masterwork Classics for repertoire.

Please feel free to critique what I have, as I look forward to people here with many years of experience.

Sincerely
-Mark

[essence]

Start with B major. I think that is what Chopin suggested.

[mark eaton]

Thank you.  I actually have read that about the B Major first.

[lostinidlewonder]

A beginner should probably start learning with all the white root note scales first. You can also look at piano exam boards from around the world and see their syllabus for technical work.

What is your aim to make scales a focus in piano? Piano plays multiple notes so learning your scales although useful are no where near as useful as on monophonic instruments.

[mark eaton]

Thank you lostinidlewonder

I would say scales is not so much a focus per se, as a part of my training that I want to do correctly.  I just have noticed that a lot of pieces can go up on a scale and I just want to make sure that I learned them correctly with all the correct fingers and such.

[ted]

I am too different a player to comment constructively about scales except to say that technique is a means to the end of enjoying music. As such you are at liberty to improve it in whatever ways you like, which may or may not involve scales. As long as it clearly deepens your delight at the instrument (genre doesn't matter) then spend as much time and effort on scale practice as you see fit. If it all starts to become a dull daily grind then it is time to explore technical practice using a wider variety of movements, of which an infinite number do exist after all.

[quantum]

My suggestion would be to learn the concept and physical body movement of playing scales, chords and arpeggios at the piano.  Once you have a grasp of that, move on to playing repertoire in order to get better at playing scales.  Don't spend the entire day practising only scales (unless you genuinely enjoy that sort of thing).  Practice time management at the piano: no more than 10% playing scales, chords, arpeggios; 90% playing repertoire, improvising, sight reading.  The percentage of practice time you devote to scales can be reduced as you gain proficiency at the piano. 

As for a plan learning scales, chords and arpeggios: one major key, plus one minor key as a work unit.  Study all technical elements in a key.  Don't try to start with all major keys, then move to all minor keys.  Study these until you have a good grasp, then move on to the next major key / minor key work unit.  Don't dwell on a scale if it is not perfect, move on to the next key then revisit the ones that give you challenges. 

The order in which you learn the scales is of lesser importance.  But if you want suggestions, you might follow a syllabus such as RCM.  Examine the order of scales as the grades progress. 

Use repertoire and improvisation to build scale technique.  Don't rely on isolated scale practice to get better at scales.  For example: practising Mozart K 545 is much more beneficial than just repeating the C major scale ad nauseam. 

 

[mark eaton]

quantum, thank you.  This is some great advice.

I do only plan to spend a smaller amount of my time on scales, etc.  and the remaining on repertoire, sight reading, etc.  I like the idea of grouping the major/minor as a work unit.  Appreciate the feedback.

And by the way, I love Mozart K 545 :-)

Thanks again
Mark

[lostinidlewonder]

I just have noticed that a lot of pieces can go up on a scale and I just want to make sure that I learned them correctly with all the correct fingers and such.

Also note that one scale can be played with many different fingering solutions. The theory fingering is fine but it's not always used and in fact can be inefficient depending on what happens before and after it and within it, within a piece.

[ted]

Mark, I have sent you a private message about another approach you might find useful for your scales but I don't want to clutter threads with excessive detail.

[essence]

Maybe another aspect is how to listen, and different styles. Most beginning pianists (I realise you are not a beginning musician) play scales unevenly. Not all notes are the same volume, not all notes are in time, not all notes are legato. So you have to learn to listen and spot these kinds of problems.

Also, playing a scale in different styles is good for more advanced students. Style of Scarlatti, style of Beethoven, style of Chopin, style of Prokovieff, for example. Even within Chopin there are different styles - is it ornamental, or the flourish at the end of a coda?

Start with stocatto and legato. Listen very carefully whether it is truly legato.

For the fingers, I have always been taught that playing with different rythms helps. It means the fingers get used to faster transitions than a steady scale. [does that make sense - I mean a da-di-da-di rythm, and then a di-da-di-da rythm - I found this very useful for Chopins op 25 thirds study].

[mark eaton]

essence, thank you for that. I have not considered that.  Blues scales are certainly different that I have played for sure.

lostinidlewonder, you are correct.  I have shorter fingers, and while playing some boogie and blues songs, the finger just does not work for me the way it is laid out on the music, and I have had to shift my fingers to work accordingly.

Ted, I did write back, thank you.

I appreciate all the feedback.  This is a great site for sure.

[essence]

  Blues scales are certainly different that I have played for sure.

Yes, classical musicians can't play blues/jazz, and blues/jazz musicians can;t play classical! debate!

Certainly some styles of music demand that scales NOT be played evenly.