I need to understand key weighting and pedals before making a larger investment

[satiefanatic]

Hey everyone, a couple years ago, i bought this concert keyboard for about $100 less than what they are selling it now for:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Concert--alesis-concert-88-key-digital-piano

A lot of my reason for wanting to learn piano was [and still is] to expand my theory knowledge and improve my range of the kinds of sounds I can play. Synthesizers are nice and all, but the standard piano sound is honestly good enough for me.

Recently, I've been having issues with my knuckles while learning gymnopedie, and i did a lot of research on proper technique. I have permanent neurological damage in my right hand from playing guitar, so i take this very seriously. Trying to fix my technique did not work, so i set up an appointment at a piano store, and i realized very quickly that the keyboard was (almost?) entirely to blame for my knuckles being tense, and the mild joint pain in my hands. When i play a standard piano, the keys basically don't resist my fingers at all. The owner of the store also let me play the yamaha digital pianos, and they gave my hands a lot less resistance than the alesis one above, even though it wasn't quite as smooth as the acoustic piano. Also, even though the paino store owner was an accomplished concert painist, and i explicity told her i prioritized ergonomics and proper technique because of my issues, she said i played with good technique.

Those digital pianos run between $3k to $4k based on their synthesizer capabilities, and are not portable (they're not ovewhelmingly heavy, but you need two people still unless you are a bodybuilder who lives in a universe without door frames). I would buy them and have them transported to my house, but hear me out before i buy anything...

Do the properly weighted, hammer action portable keyboards offer the same "ease of playing" type of experience. For example:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ES120BK--kawai-es120-88-key-digital-piano-with-speakers-black

If i can get the same or better experience out of playing an instrument i can actually take with me, there's no reason to spend significantly more money for something I can't. I don't just want a "yeah, buy it" response, but an understanding of what's out there, and exactly how weighting and non-weighting effect how hard it is to press the keys.

Plus, the piano store owner taught me about the pedals, even though I didn't full understand. My alesis keyboard has a bad/cheap sustain pedal i need to use to play gymnopedie. I say it's bad because sometimes it sticks, and it gives sustain when i'm not pressing it, and the sustain is removed again when i press it. She told me the right pedal gives full sustain (as i remember it), but her explanation of what the other pedals did confused me. Want to have a crack at explaining what the 3 piano pedals do? If not, I understand, i'm mostly just trying to get real human perspectives on how weighting effects key press difficulty.

[frodo10]

Hey everyone, a couple years ago, i bought this concert keyboard for about $100 less than what they are selling it now for:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Concert--alesis-concert-88-key-digital-piano

A lot of my reason for wanting to learn piano was [and still is] to expand my theory knowledge and improve my range of the kinds of sounds I can play. Synthesizers are nice and all, but the standard piano sound is honestly good enough for me.

Recently, I've been having issues with my knuckles while learning gymnopedie, and i did a lot of research on proper technique. I have permanent neurological damage in my right hand from playing guitar, so i take this very seriously. Trying to fix my technique did not work, so i set up an appointment at a piano store, and i realized very quickly that the keyboard was (almost?) entirely to blame for my knuckles being tense, and the mild joint pain in my hands. When i play a standard piano, the keys basically don't resist my fingers at all. The owner of the store also let me play the yamaha digital pianos, and they gave my hands a lot less resistance than the alesis one above, even though it wasn't quite as smooth as the acoustic piano. Also, even though the paino store owner was an accomplished concert painist, and i explicity told her i prioritized ergonomics and proper technique because of my issues, she said i played with good technique.

Those digital pianos run between $3k to $4k based on their synthesizer capabilities, and are not portable (they're not ovewhelmingly heavy, but you need two people still unless you are a bodybuilder who lives in a universe without door frames). I would buy them and have them transported to my house, but hear me out before i buy anything...

Do the properly weighted, hammer action portable keyboards offer the same "ease of playing" type of experience. For example:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ES120BK--kawai-es120-88-key-digital-piano-with-speakers-black

If i can get the same or better experience out of playing an instrument i can actually take with me, there's no reason to spend significantly more money for something I can't. I don't just want a "yeah, buy it" response, but an understanding of what's out there, and exactly how weighting and non-weighting effect how hard it is to press the keys.

Plus, the piano store owner taught me about the pedals, even though I didn't full understand. My alesis keyboard has a bad/cheap sustain pedal i need to use to play gymnopedie. I say it's bad because sometimes it sticks, and it gives sustain when i'm not pressing it, and the sustain is removed again when i press it. She told me the right pedal gives full sustain (as i remember it), but her explanation of what the other pedals did confused me. Want to have a crack at explaining what the 3 piano pedals do? If not, I understand, i'm mostly just trying to get real human perspectives on how weighting effects key press difficulty.

Hello.  I was hoping that someone would help you here.  Maybe it’s due to the length of your post and some possible inconsistencies that people are reluctant to jump in.

Inconsistencies:
You only have 2 main reasons to want to learn and one of them is “improve my range of the kinds of sounds I can play”.  But then you say ” Synthesizers are nice and all, but the standard piano sound is honestly good enough for me.”  What did you mean by “range of kinds of sounds I can play”?

You say: “When i play a standard piano, the keys basically don't resist my fingers at all.”  But this is not true.  After quick AI calc, you need to stack about 9 quarters on the end of the middle C key of a concert grand piano to depress the key.  So piano keys do have resistance.

You paid $199 for what looks like a cheap, non-usable instrument and you are sampling playing $3000 - $4000 instruments.  What is your price range?

Your question is “Do the properly weighted, hammer action portable keyboards offer the same "ease of playing" type of experience. “

Here are my thoughts.  I apologize if missed something by not spending more time trying to understand your post.

“Ease of playing” compared to an acoustic grand piano? You do not need weighted keys unless you are specifically going to learn to play an acoustic piano.  The keys are weighted to mimic the feel of an acoustic piano. Pipe organs have equal weighting for all keys for example.  Note: Weighted keys means the lower the note on the piano, the more resistance is required to press.  Equal weighting is not considered weighted keys.

Your current keyboard that is giving you trouble has 88 premium, full-sized, semi-weighted keys with adjustable touch response.  You paid $199 for this when you bought this new.  Adjustable touch response in a full sized 88 key keyboard for $199 new??  If it were me I would immediately toss this in the garbage.  I do agree you can absolutely cause yourself harm by continuing to play this “instrument”.

You can’t go wrong with anything that you get from Yamaha.  You should be able to get something nice for less than $500 that will allow you to expand your theory knowledge and improve your range of the kinds of sounds you can play. You do not need weighted keys unless you are planning on playing an acoustic piano.

My advice – stop playing your current “instrument” immediately before you hurt yourself.  Get something from Yamaha or other reputable maker.

[frodo10]

Reread your post.  Looks like you already concluded that you need new piano.  My bad.

How about this?  Weighs 41 lbs.- not too heavy?
https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/en/p/instruments/keyboards-synthesizers/stage-pianos/cp88-88-key-stage-piano

As far as pedals go, I would just worry about the sustain pedal which is required. 

But CP88 does have additional pedal option in addition to sustain: can be assigned to various functions, such as sostenuto or soft pedal control.   You can google what these are if interested.

Good luck! 

[smsee72]

Hi there,
I’ll share my experience even though it may only be partially relevant. I started playing several months ago on a weighted Roland FP10. Within three months I developed a persistent tendinitis in both hands, which took months to resolve. Between working on my technique and pacing my practice habits, I found out that the Roland keyboard are weighted at around 80-90g of depression weight, whereas a standard acoustic piano is generally regulated at 45-50g. You can easily check this by bringing some weights along when you test keyboards (some pre-weighed stacks of coins, for example). There are many factors that play a role in the felt response of a key, but this is one of them. I’m sure different digital keyboards are weighted differently, so it may be worth checking.
As for the pedals: it depends if you’re comparing with an upright or a grand. In an upright, the right pedal is the sustain (needed for almost every type of music), the middle is a practice pedal that reduces the volume (totally pointless in a digital piano) and the left one reduces the distance between hammers and strings, making it easier to play softly). In a grand, the middle pedal (if present) only sustains the next key played, the others works similarly to an upright, though the mechanism is different. For the most part, you only really need the sustain pedal.

[frodo10]

Generally, Yamaha keyboards tend to have a lighter touch than Roland keyboards, especially when comparing their entry-level and mid-range models.

Per AI: Whether playing an acoustic or digital piano, the risk of developing tendonitis primarily depends on factors like technique, posture, and practice habits, rather than the specific type of piano itself.

But I suspect that your "$199 piano with adjustable touch response" was the cause of your problems. 

Toss it.

[frodo10]

I just want to correct an earlier statement that I made. 

What I called weighted keys in an earlier post is actually called Graded Hammer Action: This is a more advanced system where the keys in the lower register are weighted more heavily than those in the higher register, mimicking the feel of an acoustic piano where lower notes have heavier hammers.

Weighted keys use counterweights to provide key resistance.  It may be uniform weight or it may use graded hammer action. Counterweights: Small weights attached to the keys or key levers to simulate the resistance of an acoustic piano's hammers.

Digital pianos without weighted keys, also known as unweighted keys or synth-action keys, use springs to provide resistance and a return-to-position mechanism. While spring-action keys provide some resistance, they don't accurately simulate the weight and feel of an acoustic piano's keys, particularly the graded weighting found in higher and lower registers.

Semi-Weighted Keys: Some digital pianos offer semi-weighted keys, which combine a spring mechanism with added weight to provide a more realistic playing experience than fully unweighted keys.

But again, I want to emphasize per AI: Whether playing an acoustic or digital piano, the risk of developing tendonitis primarily depends on factors like technique, posture, and practice habits, rather than the specific type of piano itself.  This of course assumes you are not playing a defective instrument and you are playing a well maintained instrument built by a highly respected maker such as Yamaha.

OP: Still here?