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Topic: Scarlatti and figured bass  (Read 585 times)

Offline momopi

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Scarlatti and figured bass
on: August 17, 2025, 02:10:06 PM
Are figured bass markings obligatory? Do we strictly have to follow them or are they optional?

Offline brogers70

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Re: Scarlett and figured bass
Reply #1 on: August 17, 2025, 02:54:35 PM
I do not understand your question. Who is Scarlett? Figured bass markings are pretty obligatory - if you make up a different harmony than the one indicated in the figured bass, you are liable to clash with whatever group you are playing with.

Offline momopi

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #2 on: August 18, 2025, 05:01:39 AM
Sorry, autocorrect on my phone. I changed it now.

I have Alfred's Scarlatti, Introduction to his Keyboard Works and some pieces have figured bass markings. I don't know how to follow the figured bass markings.

Can I just follow the score as is? Or is it not advisable?

Offline brogers70

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #3 on: August 18, 2025, 01:03:22 PM
That sounds interesting; could you show an example?

At a guess, I'd say that if the right hand part consists of only a single melodic line, you could consider filling in some harmony in the right hand, based on the figured bass below, but I've never seen a Scarlatti sonata written that way. I'm curious.

Offline frodo10

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #4 on: August 18, 2025, 02:22:04 PM
Domenico Scarlatti wrote a few with figured bass markings.  K91 is an example and is a 4 movement Sonata da Chiesa.  K 81, K88, K89 and K90 are the others.  Some of the figured bass markings are sparse on these sonatas. It just has top line and base line written out with a few figured bass markings.  Scott Ross in his complete recording of the 555 sonatas saves these for the last CD and is performed by Violin or oboe playing top line and Harpsichord and cello or bassoon playing the Basso continuo.

Offline frodo10

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #5 on: August 18, 2025, 02:40:04 PM
Just read OP post again.  Naxos has recording of all Scarlatti Sonatas played on piano by many different pianists.  Here is K91.  You can hear what pianist did for K91 for the solo performance.  The first shown here is Scott Ross ensemble performance.

OPTION: You could just play the top and bottom part and ignore the figured bass.  If my memory is good, I think one of the pianists ignored the figured bass for the Naxos recording of one or more of the 5 mentioned sonatas in prior post   Would take time to confirm this.



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Offline frodo10

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #6 on: August 18, 2025, 08:43:50 PM
Had a few minutes this afternoon.  Here are a couple more examples.

K81 (also a 4 movement Sonata da Chiesa) is played mostly without figured bass but embellishments are added:

First mvt - little figured bass added but embellishments are added.
Second movement – 1st half: first time played plain without figured bass, repeat with embellishments and a little figured bass added.
Third movement – small amount figured bass added. 
Last movement - little figured bass added. 
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I did not listen to this just now.  You can see what is done for figured bass here.
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Offline frodo10

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #7 on: August 19, 2025, 06:45:02 PM
Consulting AI is always good.  This AI guy is pretty smart.  ;)

I would say if a particular passage sounds dry or too sparse, especially at certain cadences, add a little harmonic support.  This pianist that plays K81 and K90 in the samples I provided is excellent.  Unlike the first K91 pianist (who is also excellent) that adds much more harmonic support, the K90 pianist adds very little and the result is beautiful!

Q: the scarlatti sonatas k81, k88, k89, k90 and k91 are written with figured bass notation.  I assume these would mainly be used by the instruments playing the basso continuo (harpsichord and cello perhaps).  if playing these sonatas on solo piano, can these figured bass notations be ignored?

A: The role of figured bass in Scarlatti's sonatas played on solo piano
The Scarlatti sonatas you mention (K81, K88, K89, K90, and K91) were originally scored for solo instrument and continuo, meaning they were performed with a bass instrument (like a cello) and a chord-playing instrument (like a harpsichord).
When performing these sonatas on a modern solo piano, the figured bass markings should not be entirely ignored. Here's why:
Historical context and performance practice: Figured bass is a shorthand notation system from the Baroque era indicating the harmonies to be played above the bass line. Baroque musicians were expected to improvise or "realize" these harmonies in performance.
Providing a harmonic framework: The figured bass provides a crucial harmonic framework for the piece. While a solo piano performance won't involve a separate continuo player, understanding these harmonies allows the pianist to create a stylistically appropriate and complete musical interpretation.
Guiding your interpretation: Analyzing the figured bass can inform your voicing choices, ornamentation, and overall approach to the piece, helping you to create a performance that reflects the composer's intentions and the style of the period.
However, the way you use this information will differ from a harpsichordist playing continuo:
A solo pianist has to integrate the harmonic realization (implied by the figured bass) into their playing, combining the bass line with the chords and upper voices to create a complete musical texture.
It's not about strictly realizing every figure, but rather using the information to shape your interpretation and bring out the intended harmony and counterpoint within a solo piano context.
Some editions of Scarlatti's keyboard works might include editorial realizations or suggestions for realizing the figured bass on the piano.
In summary: While you won't have a separate continuo player, understanding figured bass is essential for a historically informed and musically complete performance of these Scarlatti sonatas on solo piano. It informs your interpretation, allows you to fill in the harmonies, and contributes to a richer musical experience.

Offline momopi

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #8 on: August 24, 2025, 05:57:06 AM
That sounds interesting; could you show an example?

At a guess, I'd say that if the right hand part consists of only a single melodic line, you could consider filling in some harmony in the right hand, based on the figured bass below, but I've never seen a Scarlatti sonata written that way. I'm curious.

Not all pieces have figured bass. But the ones that do have usually have number 6 below the note. I do not understand this.  :-\

Offline frodo10

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #9 on: August 24, 2025, 02:48:48 PM
Not all pieces have figured bass. But the ones that do have usually have number 6 below the note. I do not understand this.  :-\

Yes. 6 and 7 and 6/4 and #, etc.  I'll give brogers70 the honors of explaining figured bass notation to you.

Offline brogers70

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #10 on: August 24, 2025, 03:16:46 PM
Thank you Frodo, but I won't try to write it all out here. Here's a good link for the basics of reading (="realizing") figured bass.

https://iastate.pressbooks.pub/comprehensivemusicianship/chapter/5-4-figured-bass-notation-tutorial/

Offline frodo10

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #11 on: August 24, 2025, 03:19:29 PM
Thank you Frodo, but I won't try to write it all out here. Here's a good link for the basics of reading (="realizing") figured bass.

https://iastate.pressbooks.pub/comprehensivemusicianship/chapter/5-4-figured-bass-notation-tutorial/

Great link!

Offline momopi

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Re: Scarlatti and figured bass
Reply #12 on: September 01, 2025, 08:40:50 PM
Thank you Frodo, but I won't try to write it all out here. Here's a good link for the basics of reading (="realizing") figured bass.

https://iastate.pressbooks.pub/comprehensivemusicianship/chapter/5-4-figured-bass-notation-tutorial/

Thank you for the link. I need to learn more about harmony then.
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