Bach d-minor Concerto 1.movement Question

[glenngulda]

Dear forum members,
A few months ago, I had the rare opportunity to play the first movement of the D minor concerto with a small professional ensemble. It was a long-held dream come true. I was able to make a recording of it, and even though it is far from perfect, I am glad to have this document. Unfortunately, I received some rather negative feedback from my former professor, with whom I studied. What bothered him strongly was the second cadenza toward the end of the piece (the one with the long organ point passage). He was very bothered by the fact that I slowed down there and felt that I destroyed all the energy because it is a climax of the work. But I actually wanted this moment in the piece to create a kind of personal lament and an emotionally introverted retreat, so that the drama could build up again when the orchestra kicks in and the fast passage begins. The piece is based 1:1 on a cantata with the theme "We must go through much tribulation," and I wanted to show the personal pain there. However, this passage is often not played that way and is actually used as an energetic climax. I would be very interested to hear what you think about this and how you interpret and understand this passage and perceive my interpretation of it.

[frodo10]

Well played!  You played this movement very well and the ensemble was a quality group.  You are referring to 6:15 to 6:40 I assume.  Your interpretation here works very well for me for the reasons that you mention.  It is very common (including for professors) to develop what I call a "biased ear".  I'm guilty of that myself. 

When I was young (maybe 10 years old) I had a recording of Bach orchestral suite No. 2.  This is over 50 years ago.  The way ensembles and orchestras perform Bach today is vastly different from how they did 60 years ago, primarily due to the rise of the Historically Informed Performance (HIP) movement.

The performance I listened to as a child of the overture (a French overture with a fugal section that still gives me goose bumps to this day) was slow, drawn out, serious.  It was so moving to me.  Nowadays it is played quicker, lighter with portato articulation.  To this day I cannot find a performance of this work that I like due to my Biased ear.

I wouldn't worry about your professors preferences too much.  As long as your performance choices are musically sound which I believe they are in this case.  Again, well done!

[essence]

i enjoyed it. It's OK o be a bit different.

Loved the swinging light!

[glenngulda]

Well played!  You played this movement very well and the ensemble was a quality group.  You are referring to 6:15 to 6:40 I assume.  Your interpretation here works very well for me for the reasons that you mention.  It is very common (including for professors) to develop what I call a "biased ear".  I'm guilty of that myself. 

When I was young (maybe 10 years old) I had a recording of Bach orchestral suite No. 2.  This is over 50 years ago.  The way ensembles and orchestras perform Bach today is vastly different from how they did 60 years ago, primarily due to the rise of the Historically Informed Performance (HIP) movement.

The performance I listened to as a child of the overture (a French overture with a fugal section that still gives me goose bumps to this day) was slow, drawn out, serious.  It was so moving to me.  Nowadays it is played quicker, lighter with portato articulation.  To this day I cannot find a performance of this work that I like due to my Biased ear.

I wouldn't worry about your professors preferences too much.  As long as your performance choices are musically sound which I believe they are in this case.  Again, well done!

Again thank you very much! Yes, I know what you mean. Once you have a certain idea of a piece, you become biased. I also know this with recordings. Funnily enough, I had that with a recording of Brahms' Piano Concerto. I heard it for the first time with Glenn Gould and then listened to it a lot. It's a very special but also very fascinating interpretation. And it took me a long time to understand that it can be just as fascinating when played differently. I think that's a very important process. Recognizing different truths and learning something from each of them.

[frodo10]

Again thank you very much! Yes, I know what you mean. Once you have a certain idea of a piece, you become biased. I also know this with recordings. Funnily enough, I had that with a recording of Brahms' Piano Concerto. I heard it for the first time with Glenn Gould and then listened to it a lot. It's a very special but also very fascinating interpretation. And it took me a long time to understand that it can be just as fascinating when played differently. I think that's a very important process. Recognizing different truths and learning something from each of them.

Absolutely!  When I was age 10, we only had the 1 recording of the Bach and there was no internet.  So I listened to the same recording over and over again.  Being young, it also made that much more of an impression on me.  Maybe your professor had such a recording of the Bach concerto when he was young.  Who knows?

[ricercar]

I would go as far as to say that the cadenza sounds better when slowed down. Glenn Gould takes it even slower, though his/Bernstein's version is on the whole very slow. Polina Osetinskaya's version (which I adore), brisk as it is, takes that cadenza very softly, doing a kind of diminuendo to pianissimo until the orchestra joins in again. I don't think it makes any sense to call this cadenza an energetic climax. To my ears, the tension decreases during this cadenza and then steadily rises until returning to the main motif of this movement. So in my opinion your instincts are 100% correct. Even if you do not slow it down, I think one should interpret it as a low, melancholy part of the piece. Another example: Jean Rondeau's version - he very dramatically slows it down in his version. Of course there are counterexamples - Trevor Pinnock seems to take more of your professor's approach. But overall I think making it too energetic is actually a poor interpretation.