Prokofiev Sonata no. 3

[ralessi]

I am a freshman in college and along with someo ther pieces i am working on the 3rd prokofiev sonata.  I am a very very fast learner and memorize things very quickly.  (Rhapsody in blue in 3 or so months, as wel with the 2nd chopin Scherzo, Liszt Etude in F minor no. 10 learned and performed last semester, ect.) but this semester i am working on the 3rd prokofiev sonata and for some reason i am having so much trouble memorizing it.  Right after the middle moderato part it gets into the Allegro Tempestoso part and right after the really marcato part it gets all dissonant and no matter how many times through or how slow i play it...its just not sticking!  I really have never played much 20th century music.  other than Rhapsody in Blue and the 3 argentinian dances by Ginastera, and dont relaly know what to do! any suggestions would be awesome! thanks all!

Cheers!
Ricky

[SDL]

I can tell you how I manage with rhythmic stuff like this...

I learnt No3 a while ago but I didnt memorise fully.. BUT.  Im learning the first Prokofiev Sonata at the mo for a recital.  There is a rhythmic bit in the middle (a build up of harmonic motifs with 2 thematic undercurrents) I found that when I worked out the harmony (the Keys in chord fomat Cm - Dmajor etc) this helped alot in the first instance just to learn slowly.  But then your other senses do take over eventually and when you've done enough slow practice (try one bar then add another from memory and so on but not too much at a time is the key)you no longer need to think of the chords.  At this point hearing the music (playing musically) takes over, and for me both aural and visual memory helps (I see the notes although not individually but I see the motivic shape and the coffee stains and the pencil markings  ).   When you learn memorising the bars one by one keyboard memory does help to a small degree.  See if you can apply this to your Sonata no3 - and any other piece for that matter.

[whynot]

I thought the above post sounded helpful.  I have a few ideas in addition.  I'm looking at the section of your piece right now and I think this could be looked at in a more straightforward way than it appears.  I believe you're talking about the "precipitato" part with the LH chromatic thirds and all the moving around in the RH.  Is that it?  If not, stop reading now and let me know!  I like to emphasize certain arrival points to highlight large shapes in my memory.  First, just to get myself playing something, I'd start with the LH thirds and add only the RH F's at the beginning of each beat to organize my choreography a little (Gb's, C's as it goes on)--in tempo as much as possible, and setting aside the music as soon as possible.  Then add the last sixteenth of each beat, as they're octaves and easy to remember (with LH), so I'm playing 1--a 2--a.  Then the innards of the beats only have two patterns, one way going up, the other coming down.   Add the little cha-cha-cha RH fifths, and now you have the whole pattern, which is also set up slowly right after the marcatissimo before the sixteenths, so you get a preview/reminder before you have to do it fast.  Anyway, that's what I would do.  When I was younger (a while ago!), I memorized things by accident, just by playing them.  Now my time is more fractured.  I won't say I'm busier, because the young students on this site are incredibly busy.  But I have to make things happen at specific times, and these are some of the things I do.  Let me know if this is the wrong section!  Best of luck.       

[ralessi]

SDL thank you very much for uyour post and whynot as well.  But in reply to WHYNOT's post, i going back over the part you talked about using what you said....helped me in that section a lot! so thank you for that but i was actually talking about the part right after that at the agitato section up until about the con elevazione section thats FFF.  i dunno..nomatter HOW MUCH and HOW SLOW i practice it, its just not sticking! and like i said, im a fast memorizer, memorizing the piece in my head before i even open the music does wonders but now its just..not working! thanks!

Cheers!
Ricky

[whynot]

Hi!  I forgot where this was posted and couldn't find the followup for the longest time.  Yes, there's a way to search the forum, and if I were smarter, I would've figured out how to use it sooner... oh well.  How's it going?  I'm fascinated by memorization, so if you're still looking at that section, say so--  it would be fun to keep chipping away at it online.  I'll dig it out just in case, but you've probably moved on with your life.  Let us know....