Chang Practice

[SDL]

Has anyone put into practice the suggestions Chang makes in his book? 
Does the HS practice up to speed and then HT slowly work for you? 
Does anyone do the "cycling" thing that Chang recommends? I read about cycling but it still seems a bit mechanical way of practicing to me - repetition always goes into the subconcious because your brain naturally doesn't have to concentrate on what it can do already.   Im open minded and wanted to know if anyone has the experience of "cycling"

Ive been changing the way I practice lately because I have so little time (1.5 hrs per day in the week & between 4-6 hrs weekend).  I used to practice everything from slow upwards (on a well known teacher's recommendations) but I found I hit that speed barrier and the application of technique seemed to change, and I started naturally changing my practice to HS up to speed then slowing down before I read Chang, because I was also reading Gyorgy Sandor's book.

 

[pianowelsh]

cycling or circular practice is very efficient - i do it alot ! My teacher promotes it as when you learn a fast piece slowly and firm (as advocated by many teachers) you actually start using a different set of muscles from the ones you will use to play fast and you then need to almost relean the piece when you up the tempo. Circling means you only play small sections but its at the correct tempo and therefore using the correct muscles and if feels the same way it will feel later (when the piece is further on) I agree it may seem a bit unmusical it did to me but actually its not its like looking at a corner of a cezane through a microscope so you get all the shading just right then setting it in its context. It works sort of like building strands of DNA. I have to say i dont only do fast circular practice because i am mediocre talent i cant just launch in upto tempo accurately with everything i play so i tend to do a mix of slow practice with metronome to make sure keeps rhythmic shape - often lost as consequence of slow playing and circular at tempo practice. One thing you have to becarefull of is false starts. if you find your getting tense with partic figure take the tempo back a bit to something in between and or reduce the the size of circular bit (if its very hard leaps etc sometimes two note figure) You have to make sure as well that what you repeat is totally in control - there is NO point skimming over a passage a dozen times at speed when it feels ropey and out of control - sit and analyse it several times first and even play silent above key so that you dont surprise yourself and have false starts - they are counterproductive. You should always try to get as pin point dynamics in as poss too Hope thats helpfull for you!

[Steve T]

I'm having terrific success with Chang's book.
HS up to and beyond the tempo of the piece followed by HT slower is really working well. I too had problems with hitting the speed wall.
I particularl like the parallel sets. Just playing two notes at a time together, then seperating them (ie slowing them down). Chang suggests that this is 'playing at infinity speed' and then slowing down. What a great idea.
I've also found that the more I use his methods, the less I need to. There's a lot of development which you gain just by approaching it his way.
Cycling also works, although I often don't bother looping it, I just play it through and go immediately back and start again as if it's a loop. That in itself is a great exercise.
Oh, and I love the concept of working each hand until it starts to tire (or just before), the switch hands. Brilliant, you can practice at lightning speed without fatigue or stress.
I love Chang !! ... in a metaphorical way... don't get the wrong idea folks 

[SDL]

Thanks for the replies.

When you cycle do you repeat a bar loads of times then move onto the next and then do a joining then cycle those?

When you play slow do you play deep into the keys? As you get faster its naturally lighter - my previous teacher told me to practice slwo and deep first.  But as you say there is a difference in how you play something slow than fast.  So .. do you play something fast to try out what motions you will need for fast speeds then play the section slower and deeper into the keys?  I cant see how the same motions will be the same deeper as they are when you try out faster.

Another problem Ive found that.. when you try to play faster than you need to you use different motions again which will not be the way when playing down to speed.  For example a scale at super speed will be more of a roll accross the notes (fingers on the keys pushing in a quick motion).  Do you find that this is a problem the other way around - fast to slow?

[pianowelsh]

I dont really believe in pushing as if through keybed - just using as much weight as is necessary to put the key down (pushing to the floor  just wastes energy as far as i can see). Yes its important to practice the joins. an example might be a half bar then full bar the bar and a half and two bars then the next two bars in same way then the whole line. in very complexed music it might be a beat at a time - you have to make the judgement based on where your at. I had a teacher of the slow deep school too. It can be useful depending on the kind of piece you play but its not one sixe fits all for me (pressing isn't good generally though). If its a fast piece the only reason i play slow is to make sure every movement is accurate. paradoxically I play slow but move very fast to make sure all notes are being totally and efficiently covered. There is a danger that if you aim to cover too quick you build in tension but as with all methods you have to keep checking youself and using your common sense. Sometimes its helpful to reduce the block to its outline shape in very fast music. Its sounds mechanical dosent it but you have to remember its for a musical goal which is effortless fluency in passagio or clean in tempo chord shifts etc. I like the anecdote where the person in the next apartment to Prokofiev thought it was some kid learning because it was so slow etc and then met him in lift and watched him going into his apartment! oh to have been there!!! practice methods dont always sound beautiful - sometimes they sound downright unmusical but its working to the end goal thats important and everyone has their own way of getting there.

[SDL]

Thanks pianowelsh.  Well Im going mix Chang practice with my own knowledge and see what happens.  Im definately up for the velocity practice and the chord attack, parallel sets etc.    I cant see how it can be as bad as playing HT really slow from the bottom up - I really did become detached from the music by the time Id reached tempo.  I also need to learn more efficiently because I have little time after work to practice.  Im looking forward to tackling some Alkan actually using Chang because this is accurately recorded velocity!  And you know I noticed now that in my Prokofiev Sonata there are a few passages that apply to 3/4 of the piece and when Ive made progress with one major passage there has been little to for the modulated entrances (exp, dev, recap).

I found the deep into keys helped a bit but I thought it did more harm than good in some cases.  My deep practice teacher thought it would be good in chopin Op25.1 and op10.8 at the time.  I found that even though I got faster (and should have naturally got lighter) I was still playing too deep.  It was hard work and discouraging actually.  By the time Id had different teachers telling me different things and not really getting to my expectation of easy playing I was beginning to think Id reached my peak.  But Im no where near it as I see now.

[BoliverAllmon]

I dont really believe in pushing as if through keybed - just using as much weight as is necessary to put the key down (pushing to the floor  just wastes energy as far as i can see).

You need to learn to push through the keybed. Playing on top of the keys works fine on the piano you are accustomed to playing with, but will completely fall apart on a piano that feels different. pushing through the keybed promotes a good solid foundation and the ability to play no matter how heavy the piano is.

boliver

[xvimbi]

You need to learn to push through the keybed. Playing on top of the keys works fine on the piano you are accustomed to playing with, but will completely fall apart on a piano that feels different. pushing through the keybed promotes a good solid foundation and the ability to play no matter how heavy the piano is.

I agree entirely. Only hitting the keys to the escapement level is like stopping a throw in mid-air. Follow-through is vital to all kinds of movements in all kinds of athletic disciplines. In addition, the sound produced by a key hitting the keybed and one not hitting the keybed is entirely different.