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Topic: Beethoven - OP. 101  (Read 3772 times)

Offline Jamesb

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Beethoven - OP. 101
on: March 11, 2005, 06:58:34 PM
I am learning this sonata - anyone have a good fingering for the 4ths in the rh, last movt. bars 248 - 252? My editions all suggest 4-1 and 5-2, which works but is not that comfortable.
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Offline Hmoll

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Re: Beethoven - OP. 101
Reply #1 on: March 11, 2005, 07:49:43 PM
My fingering is a bit unconventional, but it' s comfortable without - IMO - making any compromises to the music.

That "section" is in three voices, and the notation has the lower voice in the lh, and the upper two voices (the 4ths) in the right hand.

 My fingering alternates the double notes between the hands. In other words, the first two 16ths I play double thirds in the lh, and single notes in the rh. The 3rd-5th 16ths I play fourths in the rh and single notes in the lh (as written), and the 7th-8th 16ths I again play as 3rds in the lh and single notes in the rh. I follow that pattern all through this section.
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Beethoven - OP. 101
Reply #2 on: March 12, 2005, 01:52:11 AM
To me it seems that the turning point, that is the 3rd,4th and 5th couple notes should be what we are listening to steadily increase in sound. So you have like, the 1st and 2nd note indroduce the movement, the 3,4,5 increase in sound, the 6,7,8 echo almost the 3,4,5. That is how i see it anyway and how my fingers would form around it.

However, there is a whole multitude of fingering posibilities however each variation aims to encourage a natural type of phrasing of the group of notes. Since i would think that the whole thing would have to be legatoish and unphrased(excepet to highlight the turns), to increase the legato effect wihtout pedal you could give length to the 3-5 fingers in the RH while the 1and2 shift around positionally.

Try this for RH:

Bar248:
first group: 13, 14, 25, 35 
next group: 35, 24, 13, 14

Note the 13 to 14 movement, the thumb may half slide(slides off the notes without coming off it, but lift up the key before sliding, dont slide off the depressed note) off the C# to the D, this will increase again the legato effect with fingers. This demands clarity of the 3 and 4 and specific control of this sliding movement, otherwise it will sound messy.

25 to 35 may seem arkward but this allows the first group to be played within a grasp of the hand, without shifting around, i feel because of this you should try to become proficient with those fingers.

Using the 5th fingers 3 times in a row may seem arkward but when you play 25 in the next group it should come with a drop of the hand to highlight the grouping, so you can get away using the 5 the 3rd imo. If it where a group of 5 couple notes then you couldn't for sure.

Bar 249:
first group: 14, 25, 24, 15
next group: 24, 25, 14, 25

Bar 250:
first group: 13, 24, 14 25
next group: 25, 14, 13, 24   
25, 25 useage aims to give slight natural accent to the next group.

Bat 251:
first group: 13, 24, 14, 25    then 35, 1, 35, 1.. note how the 5th finger sticks onto the A, this is a strong positional point for the hand so the thumb can move.
hope this helps out.
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Offline m

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Re: Beethoven - OP. 101
Reply #3 on: March 12, 2005, 02:00:14 AM
I am learning this sonata - anyone have a good fingering for the 4ths in the rh, last movt. bars 248 - 252? My editions all suggest 4-1 and 5-2, which works but is not that comfortable.

I take two notes from R.H. into LH.

R.H.  1/4-2/5-1/4-2/5-1/4-3---2/1-3    etc.
L.H.  2---1---2---1---2---1/3-4---1/3 etc.

I played this Sonata many times on stage, and never had problems with this place with this fingering.

Offline steinwayguy

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Re: Beethoven - OP. 101
Reply #4 on: July 23, 2005, 02:54:28 AM
Henle has very good fingerings.

Offline artsyalchemist

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Re: Beethoven - OP. 101
Reply #5 on: October 06, 2009, 09:49:12 PM
I just had this question too..good thing this forum keeps all of the old ones.  Saves repetition; but on that note, any other good ones?  Is there a way to maybe have the left hand play some of the notes?
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