Two schools of technique and relaxation?

[chopinguy]

My piano teacher once told me that there were two schools of technique: one where the pianist relaxes by moving as little as possible, and another where the pianist relaxes by moving all the time.

Are both techniques widely used, or is one used more commonly than the other?  Or are there two major separate schools at all?  I've been wondering about this for some time...

[steinwayguy]

I don't really see how the first school works, possibly because I am a member of the second school... it just seems logical to me.

[pianonut]

i am a member of the first and second school, but not in that order.  i mean, i learned the second school and then the first school.  now, i am sort of inbetween.  i still play beethoven with umphh - but am learning with mozart that less is better.  say, when you have a forte - you don't have to pound it.  that's where the first school comes in.  you just lean back and pretend you are at the spa. 

to me, i cannot fathom this with beethoven.  i must move.  i must express all of my passions into extemporaneous movements (minimized down to the bare necessity).  if i were playing on a grand grand piano (like a bosendorfer) i wouldn't always play like a viennese (although if i were rich, i guess i'd buy a steinway or graf for the beethoven)

it is amazing how much sound you CAN get out of a piano by hardly moving.  it saves your energy!  and, you stay relaxed.  with the other way, tension does creep in because you are having to tell yourself to relax after big movements.  with the first way, you are completely relaxed ALL THE TIME.

[chopinguy]

Yeah, at the moment my piano teacher is teaching me mostly the first school... but the thing is that when I watch other people, pretty much everyone else uses the second school.  I was wondering if anyone else out there relies mostly on first school, and if it's a good/bad thing to not do the second one?

I don't see anything wrong with the first school in principle, but the thing is that I haven't seen many other people besides my piano teacher and his students use it.

[nikodr]

I think we have to be relaxed when we play,composers notate on the score what they hear,so we have to make only the required movements that are needed in the particural bar line to create the right sonority.

If we violate this,we create a wrong vision and a wrong sonority.Also some times this BIG BIG movements can easily turn into disaster,(imagine raising the hand or wrist very very high,try to bring it down with force(con bravura!!),a slight miscalculation will make you hit the c2,c3 instead of Bb2,Bb3,now what do you say?),and sometimes i have seen pianists stoping those big figures near the end and halt them,because they feel insecure about the jump,and you feel in their playing that they are insecure.

I think piano playing is easy,but Good and excellent piano playing is VERY VERY difficult,like everything else we do (in all arts like painting,sculpture,poetry,it is easy to learn to write the words with correct gramar and no mistakes,-but the way we use them to make high works is something different).So those big figures are not what make the right sonority.Sometimes they are created even if we do not intead to do so,but making stunts only for the making of stunt moves is something musicless and bad for the us and the people who came to listen us.

[Hmoll]

I think we have to be relaxed when we play,composers notate on the score what they hear,so we have to make only the required movements that are needed in the particural bar line to create the right sonority.

If we violate this,we create a wrong vision and a wrong sonority.Also some times this BIG BIG movements can easily turn into disaster,(imagine raising the hand or wrist very very high,try to bring it down with force(con bravura!!),a slight miscalculation will make you hit the c2,c3 instead of Bb2,Bb3,now what do you say?),and sometimes i have seen pianists stoping those big figures near the end and halt them,because they feel insecure about the jump,and you feel in their playing that they are insecure.

I think piano playing is easy,but Good and excellent piano playing is VERY VERY difficult,like everything else we do (in all arts like painting,sculpture,poetry,it is easy to learn to write the words with correct gramar and no mistakes,-but the way we use them to make high works is something different).So those big figures are not what make the right sonority.Sometimes they are created even if we do not intead to do so,but making stunts only for the making of stunt moves is something musicless and bad for the us and the people who came to listen us.

I think you misunderstand what Chopinguy is asking in his post. He is talking about motion vs no motion as a means to achieve relaxation. It's a given that relaxation is important. I don't know anyone who says relaxation is not important. Part of what you want to achieve by playing in a relaxed manner is a sound that matches the composers intentions. From a technical standpoint there are schools of thought - from Abby Whiteside, for example -  that some body motion is helpful to maintain this relaxation, as well as a feeling for the underlying  pulse of the music.

[pianonut]

i agree with Hmoll about pulse, yet also agree that everytime i try to play 'grandly' with large gestures, i DO miss notes much more.  to have them in the 'feel' of the pinky (octaves) is much more precise, less bombastic (and more sonorous).

maybe it is the viewing of a pianist.  we want to see action.  how i have started 'compensating' for the one style blended with the other is to try to make smooth connections from one idea to the other visually with my hand movements.  not to suddenly jump (unless absolutely necessary - ie certain places in chopin) but pace my hand movements to the pulse of the composition i am playing.  ps i am not a concert pianist yet, so i really am just jazzing.

[IanT]

How about a third school? - Alexander Technique!  I took lessons in this for about three years.  It helped my playing enormously.  Now I don't have to think about relaxing at all.

Ian
 

[ted]

I have never consciously considered whether or not I move in order to relax. From videos I have seen of myself I probably veer on the side of little movement compared with most players. Relaxation and concentration seem to me more of the mind than of the body, but I am largely untutored in technique and know very little of these matters.

[chopinguy]

Thanks for all the replies!!

This has helped, but there's one last thing: what do people define as absolutely necessary when it comes to movement?  Some people might say only move the fingers and wrist (slightly), others might say move fingers, wrist, and arm, while others might say move the entire body (these are all extremes in a way).

One big difference is that some people I see move their elbows around alot for their wrists? (I'm not too sure about this technique since I haven't been trained in it) and other people play with elbows down and just use fingers and a bit of wrist swivel.

[xvimbi]

Thanks for all the replies!!

This has helped, but there's one last thing: what do people define as absolutely necessary when it comes to movement?  Some people might say only move the fingers and wrist (slightly), others might say move fingers, wrist, and arm, while others might say move the entire body (these are all extremes in a way).

One big difference is that some people I see move their elbows around alot for their wrists? (I'm not too sure about this technique since I haven't been trained in it) and other people play with elbows down and just use fingers and a bit of wrist swivel.

I personally strive (often without success, though) to distribute the motions across the entire body. That way it sometimes looks as if nothing is moving, because the movements around each individual joint are very small. So if you see a pianist is hardly moving, don't assume s/he is not moving. One often can't readily detect those movements, particularly at high speed. Overall, I find this to be the most efficient way; it does not put any joint at extreme orientations, which will hopefully prevent injuries. I hate the idea of keeping large portions of the playing appartus rigid while others do a lot of work. There are exceptions, though, particularly for achieveing certain effects like trills, or lifting the hand off the keys using a large sweeping motion around the shoulders and elbows, but those are truly exceptions.