Question about new german piano

[Fr.Chopin]

One of my friend is eyeing on German pianos recently. Does any body know any good pianos made in Germany? Thank you!

[iumonito]

How funny.  I barely know of good pianos not made in Germany (Fazioli, Mason and Overs, that's really it).

Start with Steingraeber, in my opinion the best.

If there is not enough money for that, Bluthner and Bechstein (so different from each other) make superb instruments.

Sowhere right here is August Foerster (watch out for the ones made in the Czech republic).

If the budget is still hurting, skip the Schimmel and go directly to Irmler (which is actually Polish).  This is what I have and couldn't be happier.

Steinway happens to make pianos in Hamburg.  If you have a lot of money and don't need to get a really good instrument you can buy one of these. 

[goose]

Hi, Iumonito, I live in the Czech Republic and was quite pleased to see August Foersters high on many people's list of great pianos (figuring I might be able to find a good one somewhere down the line).

Sowhere right here is August Foerster (watch out for the ones made in the Czech republic).

But now you've thrown me. What's wrong with the ones made in the Czech Republic?

[Axtremus]

More labels from Germany:

Grotrian, Steinberg, Seiler, Sauter

How funny.  I barely know of good pianos not made in Germany (Fazioli, Mason and Overs, that's really it).

I have a much longer list than this.

If the budget is still hurting, skip the Schimmel and go directly to Irmler (which is actually Polish).  This is what I have and couldn't be happier.

Glad that you're happy with Irmler, but I'd note that Schimmel makes some very good pianos too.

Steinway happens to make pianos in Hamburg.  If you have a lot of money and don't need to get a really good instrument you can buy one of these. 

I take exception to that statement -- a Hamburg Steinway is nothing to sneeze at.

But now you've thrown me. What's wrong with the ones made in the Czech Republic?

Don't get hung up by which piano is made where. If your goal is to get a good musical instrument, then play the pianos and decide. No point developing a prejudice based on country of origin before playing the pianos. (Don't think any new August Förster is made in the Czech republic anymore, and hasn't been for years, so it's unlikely you'll run into a Czech-made Förster if you're buying new anyway.)

[goose]

Don't get hung up by which piano is made where. If your goal is to get a good musical instrument, then play the pianos and decide. No point developing a prejudice based on country of origin before playing the pianos. (Don't think any new August Förster is made in the Czech republic anymore, and hasn't been for years, so it's unlikely you'll run into a Czech-made Förster if you're buying new anyway.)

Well, I'd be planning to buy an older piano. I can wait until I find the right one and I figure I've got more chance of getting a great piano for a decent price.

I agree that playing is the only true test, but I'd like to know if there was some fundamental problem with the way the Czechs produces Foersters back in the day.

[CJ Quinn]

playing is the only true test, but I'd like to know if there was some fundamental problem with the way the Czechs produces Foersters back in the day.

My understanding is that the Czechs AFs do not use the same scale or parts as the AF's made in Germany, so quality issues aside, it is not the same piano in any sense.  Someone once described it as being a relabled Weinbach, which is a Petrof with less finishing detail.

NOw I like Petrofs, so it;s possible that a Czech AF is a nice piano, but it's an entirely different animal than the Germany made AFs.

BTW, the German made AFs have an elaborate casting in the plate, this from my 190:

[Raschprosho]

Quite frankly I don't think there is anything better than the German made Hamburg Steinway in existence...

It is possible for your friend to find a decent Hamburg somewhere in Germany for (probably about 15-20 years old) for about...oh, I don't know....maybe 15-18,000.00 euro.

If not, the Bechstein is not a bad deal...they hold their tune in the middle register fairly well and the lower register seems to last forever!!!

The Forster's action stiffens like an old man on the blue pill so stay away from that one. I purchased one in Frankfurt three years ago and had three technicians working on it for well over a year to try and even the bastard out. We poured and poured for the voice and readjusted and readjusted the action...it was a nightmare. I've never been so outraged by any single instrument.

Irmler is like a coquette, sweet and fun but you know she is cheap.

As far as german made pianos....I don't know, it's really sad when you think about it. The best pianos in the world do not come from the country the greatest music originated in...sad.

Go for the Steinway, I know I'm happy with mine. The pouring system for voicing is so much more effective. The action lives to serve you and the longevity of the Hamburg soundboard is remarkable. (Soundboards on Steroids!!!)

Good luck, I know a dealers and patrons if your friend needs more local advice.

N.

[xvimbi]

The best pianos in the world do not come from the country the greatest music originated in...sad.

Yes, they do! Austria

[CJ Quinn]

The Forster's action stiffens like an old man on the blue pill so stay away from that one. I purchased one in Frankfurt three years ago and had three technicians working on it for well over a year to try and even the bastard out. We poured and poured for the voice and readjusted and readjusted the action...it was a nightmare. I've never been so outraged by any single instrument.
N.

How old was that piano?  Are you talking about an August Foerster made in Lobau?  They are known for incredibly smooth buttery action, so I'm surprised to hear this. 

[chickering9]

Yes, they do! Austria

[iumonito]

Rasch, I take exception.  I have an Irmler and its tonal palette is deep and rich.  There is nothing cheap about that piano except for its price.  It is hand made, it is made of hard wood, it has a  good scale, and it does everything a piano is supposed to do.  It roars, it whispers, it sings and it dances.

In fact, much better than the Steinways the same size I have played, which have a remarkably weak passaggio from tenor to bass, a relatively muddy bass (Steinway in this regard compares very poorly with better pianos, like Mason and Bechstein) and a rather uninteresting palette in the treble, where mostly there is but a few colors available.  Nothing to compare to a Bluthner, nor to my well-preped Irmler.

I have no problem with you and I disagreeing, but the fact that you think the best pianos are not German and that you have such a contrary opinion about AFs leads me to believe I have no interest in looking for common ground.  I simply think you are wrong.     (of course, there is no wrong in taste, so you really aren't, I just think you are)

CJ, thanks for the explanation about the scale and materials in the German AF.  That is precisely my understanding as well.

[jon-nyc]

BTW, the German made AFs have an elaborate casting in the plate, this from my 190:

Nice photo, Chris, but if you had panned back a bit you could have shown off the single-hitch stringing...


And Chris is right about the 'other' AF.  It is made by Petrof, not necessarily bad, just a different piano.  Apparently they ended up with rights to the name in Canada and some countries in Europe (per Larry Fine).

[jon-nyc]

Irmler is like a coquette, sweet and fun but you know she is cheap.

I've never played an Irmler, and iumonito seems to love his...

But I have to say, that's a great line.

[CJ Quinn]

Nice photo, Chris, but if you had panned back a bit you could have shown off the single-hitch stringing...

What I'm only allowed to take one picture?   

[Axtremus]

iumonito wrote:

"There is nothing cheap about that piano except for its price."

No offense, but low price is the very definition of cheap. I think very highly of good performing pianos that are cheap, in fact, much more highly than good performing pianos that are expensive. If anything, the former is more practical and more accessible, hence more likely to contribute more to music making and music education in general.

Also... just a suggestion -- we know we all have different tastes and different preferences, so can we try not to tear down the other pianos when we rave about our own favorite pianos? Different pianos exist for different reasons, to serve different purposes. Surely the pianos we love can stand on their own without the need to tear down the other pianos, right?

[iumonito]

Fair enough, although regarding my opinions about Steinway, I was responding to the statement "Quite frankly I don't think there is anything better than the German made Hamburg Steinway in existence..." which simply makes me smile.

Regarding "cheap" I understand the comment made a clear distinction between unexpensive and of low quality.  You didn't read the bon mot that way?  I can hardly imagine that being unexpensive and of high quality would give any meaning to the phrase.