10 year old student needs Piano. Need help on what to buy (Acoustic vs Roland)

[RLR]

Our 10 year old son has been playing about 2 years and is progressing very well.  We need to buy him a piano.  We  have been told that the high end Roland digital pianos are becoming the choice for many.  We live in South Florida.  Our budget is limited to $3000.  We have been told that the quality of the Roland pianos offer exceptional sound quality, weighted keys,   foot pedals with appropriate feel, and requires zero maintenance.  Whereas an acoustic piano in the $3000 range will not compare.  Additionally, the continual maintenance and sound quality make it less desirable.  We would appreciate all opinions on this both pros and cons.  Thanking you in advance.  We are very confused and new to it all!!!

[xvimbi]

First off, $3,000 may well get you a nice used upright, but if you have your heart set on a digital, definitely check out all the contenders in that range: Yamaha, Roland and Kawai. In this price range, the Kawais have the most "authentic" action with their wooden keys (and the associated wobble...), and are generally nothing to sneeze at. The Yamaha's are typically the ones that everything else gets compared to, so definitely check them out (GuitarCenter usually has plenty of models to play around with). As it turns out, you may not have to spend more than about $2,000 to get a very good digital (say, the Yamaha PF-500; the Kawai's cost a bit more). For the next step up in terms of "authenticity" (it's all about the action, the sound samples are generally very good in all models), you'll have to spend a lot more. Spend the remaining $1,000 on a teacher and material instead.

Whatever you do, take ample amount of time to play on all the different models in your price range. If necessary, take a teacher or a friend who can help, and of course, take your son and see what he likes best.

Finally, there must be about 1000 threads on this particular topic. Check them out for more info.

Good luck!

[00range]

If you're looking to go digital, check out Yamaha's Clavinova line, they're within your price range. When I was shopping for my keyboard, I settled on the Clavinova over the Roland, to me it was just superior all around. Touch, sound, looks, features - you name it.

[Chrysalis]

If you have the space i would go for acoustic
If you want to go digital: check out yamaha p120/p250 (p series) or clavinova

[RLR]

Thank you all for your input.  We are not  sure about whether we are getting acoustic or  digital.   Are the better sounding digitals close enough to the sound and feel of acoustic?   We have been told by some people that digital is now preferred by many schools because of of the maintenance issue. If you know of other threads on this issue please tell us where to look.  Thanks all.

[Chrysalis]

You can learn on a digital to play piano without loosing technique if you got a good one
(clavinova/ yamaha p series)

The only issue will be the pedaling... I have a sollution for that...
Connect the digital to a higher end pc (with 2x512 ram or something). THen
buy galaxy steinway vst and you got something like 3 gb samples of a steinway acoustic grand... that includes the realistic pedaling! so i am gonna do that too

ram is not too expansive so think about it...

[xvimbi]

Thank you all for your input.  We are not  sure about whether we are getting acoustic or  digital.   Are the better sounding digitals close enough to the sound and feel of acoustic?   We have been told by some people that digital is now preferred by many schools because of of the maintenance issue. If you know of other threads on this issue please tell us where to look.  Thanks all.

First, if you browse through the topics in the Instruments section, you'll come a cross a lot that are relevant to your situation.

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7468.0.html
https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,6195.0.html
https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5945.0.html
https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5736.0.html
https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5844.0.html

(this is just a start from about three pages back. There is a lot more)

Second, a digital piano will never successfully duplicate an acoustic. Striktly speaking, they are two different instruments. Digitals come very close, but the way acoustics "behave" can't really be duplicated (I think that's actually a good thing).

As Chrysalis points out, one can get awfully close, but the effort is immense. You will need a really high-end system. Otherwise the few milliseconds of latency will drive you nuts after a while.

In any case, I don't think getting a high-end system is an option here. If you take a look at the Yamaha PF-500, you would get everything a P-250 has plus very good pedaling functions (something that one would have to add on to the P-250). It also looks decent. The Clavinovas are not really "better" than the P or PF-series (they all have the same action and very similar sound samples). The Yamahas do have quite a heavy action though.

It is probably best to get a decent (stand-alone) digital piano now, and if your son still likes to play piano in a few years, you can start thinking about getting a good acoustic (start saving now!)

[rich_galassini]

My thoughts -

Good replies so far - if you choose to go digital please play others. The Roland is nice, but there is so much available today and technology is always changing so...... play others.

One thing to be aware of - if you choose a digital it will age much like a computer. The value will fall quickly and if you get 15 years of use, thank your lucky stars. I have been in the position of trying to get replacement parts from more than one MAJOR manufacturer of digital pianos. If the digie is more than a few years old you tend to wait for them. If it is 10 years old or older, you won't get them. If there are exceptions to this rule, I don't know of them.

An acoustic will hold up longer and there is rarely a problem with repair down the road.

My 2 cents - Good Luck,

[Chrysalis]

I would go with the replies above

Buy a digital one and after a few years of serious practicing get the acoustic one

[pianoboi666]

depending upon where u are in Florida, I live in Lakeland  and I went to Tampa and bought my baby grand weber for just over 3 grand , if u'd like I could find out the name of the store and I'll post it here but it's owned by my piano tuner.  but if u would be willing to travel to tampa I'm sure they would give you a great deal on a decent piano. just please please please I'm begging you, don't get a digital

[jr11]

You have ample money in your budget for good used Japanese upright or a better new Chinese upright that will take your student further than anything electronic.

So why are you even entertaining the digital idea?

[DarkWind]

Where do you live? If you can, try getting a Ritmuller. There are some really good uprights for around $2,500. They have nice action and a great tone. I definetely would recommend these uprights.

[RLR]

We live in South Florida.  I take it that piano you are referencing is an acoustic?  Any additional information on it would be appreciated.  Thanks

[RLR]

Okay  there is a lot of passion about not getting digital.  That's kind of what i wanted to know. The Tampa Lakeland person.... please give us contact information.  I would like to email you directly also.  We are trying to learn about this from scratch.  If you speak to any of the Sales people Roland, Yamaha, etc... they tell you that people that don't support digital aren't up on how far the technology has come and that it is becoming the instrument of choice.  What I am hearing on this forum is that that is all BS.  Acoustic is the way.  My son loves to play.  He also is very much into technology but can get lost in the bells and whistles.  But I believe learning to play correctly and well can easily transfer at anytime to a digital instrument.  All you comments are most helpful.  Keep them coming and thanks

[xvimbi]

Okay  there is a lot of passion about not getting digital. 
...
What I am hearing on this forum is that that is all BS.  Acoustic is the way. 

No, no. As I said before: digitals and acoustics are different. A digital is no substitute for an acoustic. So, if you want to learn to play on an acoustic, get an acoustic. On the other hand, a digital offers opportunities that no acoustic will ever be able to. Apples and oranges!

Still, even if the goal is to learn to play piano on an acoustic, a digital can get you a long way. Most beginners won't be able to detect and/or appreciate the differences in tone that one can achieve with an acoustic, let alone master the required techniques. Playing on a decent digital will not prevent the development of good technique. And people usually know when to switch to an acoustic, because they realize that acoustics have possibilities to create sounds that digitals don't really have. Many people get a kick out of the different instruments one can play through a digital and the recording capabilities, to name just a few features that might come in very handy. It must be said that there are teachers out there that do not allow their students to have digitals. So, ask your son's teacher what s/he recommends.

There is one more guideline: it is better to get a good digital than a bad acoustic. $3,000 is about the amount where you can get a decent acoustic upright, e.g. a low-to-medium-end used one that is in good shape. Don't even think about getting a grand for that money.

(Sorry for sounding so random, but I got this post done while working...)

[jon-nyc]

I say go for the acoustic, even if you end up buying a used upright.  THere are plenty of used Baldwins and Yamahas to be had in that range.

I bought a nice digital (Yamaha P-120) a couple of years back to use for silent practice at night, etc., and found that it actually hurt to play faster-paced pieces.  I ended up getting rid of it within a year.

$3k will get you a decent upright.  Go for it.

(but... if you DO get a digital, look for the one with the best (i.e. most piano like) touch.  don't worry about sound - as someone said thats not the big differentiator.  i have heard that the high-end kawai's have REAL piano keys (real wood) but ive never played one.)

[buddy]

I have a yamaha P-250 and love it.  The nicest thing about the digital is that you can play any time day or night with the headphones and you don't have to bother anyone. They have great customer phone service too.

[Chrysalis]

I have a yamaha p120 and very satisfied so far... It is never an acoustic and the sound blows ok i admit... but i switch often (thereby im gonna connect it to the pc with galaxy steinway and in that way it rox...

In lessons i play on yamaha grand and after lessons i stay just to fill the evening play on the yamaha grand.. i notice, what i can play on p120 i can play on the grand... a good digital is great to practice on but if you want the best sound get an acoustic.

The keys of yamaha digitals (p series clavinovas) are fair enough..
The pedalling is not realistic at all.. there is no real.... sustain you know
but when you get the basics of pedaling its not hard to estimate when to switch.
its a feeling... you get used to it....

Digitals are cool to practice on and with a good one you wont loose technique
but when i am gonna live on my own i will buy myself a acoustic one if enough space!

[xvimbi]

I have a yamaha p120 and very satisfied so far... It is never an acoustic and the sound blows ok i admit... but i switch often (thereby im gonna connect it to the pc with galaxy steinway and in that way it rox...

You need a very powerful computer (>4GB RAM), prime cables, an excellent MIDI interface and good speakers. Otherwise, you'll have latency problems. Make sure everything works OK before you finally pay for all this. Check out the KOMPAKT software (https://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?kompakt_us)

[Chrysalis]

a friend of me runs galaxy steinway with 1024 ram and everything seems to work fair.... it will eat all your ram though!


mmm i will take a look at the link u sended to me

[blamejake]

All great replies.

One thing I didn't see mentioned (or I missed it) is portability. I remember when I was a kid learning guitar, you couldn't wrest it from my hands. The only advantage I can see is that your son could take the keyboard into just about any room or even out of the house.

Just a thought.

Best regards, Steve

[RLR]

We are leaning toward digital keyboard at this point.  Our son is highly sophisticated technological and the digital side of it would cultivate both passions for him.  It was recommended to us to check out the Yamaha Motif es8.  Does anyone have any feedback on this keyboard?  How is the weighting of the keys and the sound?  We were told it is the best sound in this category.   We welcome all feedback.