Help with theory

[pizno]

OK, I need some advice.  I've been playing piano for 40 years, but never really got the solid  background in theory I should have.  Or if I did, I wasn't really paying attention and forgot most of it.  There seems to be a big gap between what I am able to play and how much of it I truly understand.  I am beginning to realize (at 48, I'm a little slow) how much understanding theory and knowing how to analyze a piece would help in my learning and performing of a piece.  I'm at a point with my piano playing where I am trying to bring it up a notch or two and would like to take my understanding of music beyond the 'circle of fifths' (I get that) and what is sonata form.  Does anyone have any suggestions for where to go - online courses, or particular theory books?  It all sounds so boring, quite honestly.  But I suppose I need that in order to get to where I want to be.

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject!  And by the way, how much theory do you all know and how does it help you?

[dinosaurtales]

Whoo boy!  can I relate to this one!  I am 49 and realized the same thing a year ago, hell I didn't even know all the key signatures and scales!  Do you live near a university that has a music department?  I signed up for the freshman music theory course at a local university.  The normal class comes in 2 pieces - the "paper" or written theory, which is the "math" of the music, and the ear training piece, which teaches you to hear and recognize the intervals and chords you are being taught inthe theory class.  It also encompasses melodic dictation, or being able to write down a melody (eventually to become WITH harmonies) that is played.  We also have to sight sing melodies and learn to sing the various chords.  The two pieces go together, and many are tempted to skip the ear training, but that's the piece that has done me the most good!  I cannot believe that I actually memorize pieces by recognizing the intervals and just "know" by how it goes what to play.  It's added a whole new dimension to my playing. 

If you lack a university to actually take the class at (I really recommend that approach, though.  I am having a blast with the class, and meeting other music folks at the same time - ) then I would recommend a workbook by Paul Harder 0 Basic Materials in Musis Theory.  I went through this book, and was amazed at how basic it was, and at the same time how little I really knew.  I just never thought of time signatures in the way it was presented, or the modes, or the chord spelling.  After a book like this one, you could see how much more you thought you needed.

[lagin]

For music history go with Machlis and Forney's Enjoyment of Music, ninth edition, chronological version.  It's like 90 bucks, but it's an awesome text book, full of composer's lives, musical styles, some theory sections, music excerpts, analysis or these excerpts, ect.  For straight up theory, look into the Rudiments level one or two depending how much you know.  Level one is yellow, level two is very, very, very, bright orange!  Both are published by Fredrick Harris.  These are more like workbooks.  A page a day kind of thing.  I depends if you're a reader or a writer when it comes to learning.

[pizno]

Thanks for your suggestions.  I have avoided the University course for years because it seems so intense, and because it is hard to fit into my work schedule.  I believe it is hard for non majors to get into it too.  I know there is a smaller college that I could check out though.  I had not thought about how helpful it could be to hear and recognize intervals in learning music.  I will look up the suggested books too.  I would love to have examples of how to analyze music.  So much to learn.  I am surrounded by pianists who have master's degrees in music and I am so jealous of their background.

[TheHammer]

hmm, a site I visit regularly on theory issues is

https://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory1.htm

It sort of explains the most basic things, starting with the staff, going over rythm, articulation, cadences, modes, ... you get it.

Oh, and of course there are several other threads concerning theory on this forum (search!!). One thread comes to mind, with a nice Bernhards list.

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,6498.msg64035.html#msg64035

Will give you a nice overview.

[Derek]

I've read parts of Schoenburg's Theory of Harmony, a book called Harmony by Walter Piston, and Harmony Simplified by some other dude. And a book on form also by Schoenburg.

Did they help me? Not really. In fact, all that I know about music intuitively now just has labels. The labels don't seem to help me creatively or expressively, at all. However I still am attracted to analyzation and labels as a seperate, sort of conscious by-product of my deeper, unconscious musical processes.

Would I reccommend it? Nah. Just play and enjoy. Who cares about theory.

[lagin]

Personally, I found theory helpful in enabling me to learn pieces faster.  When I look at a bar, I don't see. G B D B D G D G B, anymore.  I see oh, that's just a g chord with two inversions.  I don't see a bunch of notes in a row anymore, but a chromatic scale, ect.  Memorizing also goes alot quicker consequently.

[BoliverAllmon]

Personally, I found theory helpful in enabling me to learn pieces faster.  When I look at a bar, I don't see. G B D B D G D G B, anymore.  I see oh, that's just a g chord with two inversions.  I don't see a bunch of notes in a row anymore, but a chromatic scale, ect.  Memorizing also goes alot quicker consequently.

agree. theory helps the memory, technique, sight-reading ability, and overall musicality.

[key of c]

Pizno,
I can understand where you're coming from - I played piano all my life with little knowledge about theory until the last 7 years or so.
I thought all I had to do was practice, which of course, I still have to do!
But after taking some courses at a junior college I was amazed at what a difference it made. 

[key of c]

oops! hit the enter button to soon.
I think that theory might be harder to learn when you know music already because it's a different approach at something you already know but have never analyzed.  At least it was very difficult for me.  Bit if you stick with it, you won't regret it.

But I really noticed that my level of playing shot up and I'm still learning more about it when I can. 
Good luck!