Pearl River Pianos?

[doowlehc]

I went to a local competition, and the piano they use is Peral River grand...  what the heck is Pearl River!??!  it sounded horrible - out of tune, weak sound, so thin.

Or was just problem with that one specific Pearl River?

[Brian Lawson, RPT]

You'll find their website here:
www.pearlriverpiano.com

Any out of tune piano sounds horrible, perhaps it should have been tuned more frequently if used for a competition.

[fred smalls]

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Pearl River have the worst everything (including reputation) of any piano brand!

[donjuan]

Chinese are absolutely no better at making pianos than they are at desserts.  blech!!

[jr11]

Chinese pianos are absolutely no better at making pianos than they are at desserts.  blech!!

Two years I would have agreed. Very different story now.

Try out a Ritmuller (hand-built version of Pearl River) in a 6ft or 7ft with Renner action. I think you'll agree it is as good or better than a new Yamaha (most of which are now built in China) at a fraction of the cost. The 30 year reign of the Japanese piano would appear to be coming to a close.

[Axtremus]

I've played Chinese-made 5'-ish Story and Clark that I thought was quite nice, so I don't think the categorical knock on all Chinese pianos is fair. And I strongly protest against any one knocking Chinese desserts!

Try out a Ritmuller (hand-built version of Pearl River) in a 6ft or 7ft with Renner action. I think you'll agree it is as good or better than a new Yamaha (most of which are now built in China) at a fraction of the cost. The 30 year reign of the Japanese piano would appear to be coming to a close.

Can you please be more elaborate on how the Ritmullers are built differently than the other Pearl Rivers, so much so that you see it fit to label one "hand built" but not the other?

Also, can you please also be more specific about which Yamaha models you are comparing them to? It wouldn't surprise me if Yamaha (or anyone else for that matter) gets more and more of their pianos made in China, I don't have any problem with China overtaking every other country as the largest suppliers of pianos in the world (they probably already have), but I'd like to know exactly which specific models or product lines are being referenced here.

For one thing, I doubt Yamaha is making any of their 6'+ pianos in China, even their smallest 4'11" grand is made in Indonesia, not China. So you could be comparing a 6'~7' Ritmuller to Yamaha uprights, which wouldn't make much sense as far as comparisons go. Even if you compare dollar-for-dollar, can you get a 6' Ritmuller for the price of a 4'11" GB1? If not, what's the point of comparing two piano of different sizes with one being 50% more expensive than the other? (If not 50%, throw in some other number. )

[DarkWind]

I own a Ritmuller! They are actually very very good. Very strong and full sound, great action, a wide and warm tone, that's not afraid to be brute if it needs to.

[erecording]

Here is my two cents worth regarding Pearl River:

They have the largest piano manufacturing facility in the World! Although the name is not as familiar as Yamaha or Steinway, Pearl River is an awesome buy and I highly recommend that anyone who doesn't have $3-4K to spend on a piano should consider one. They are probably the most promising out of the Chinese brand names in the market.

Some people have issues with the fact that Pearl River is made in China. However, I'm amazed by the quality in craftsmanship and attention to detail of Pearl River Pianos. Besides, China is the dominant market for pianos today- that's a fact. They have 25+ manufacturers and that number is increasing. I don't believe made in China is a bad thing. You have to play a Pearl River for yourself!

[Keoni]

Here is my two cents worth regarding Pearl River:

They have the largest piano manufacturing facility in the World! Although the name is not as familiar as Yamaha or Steinway, Pearl River is an awesome buy and I highly recommend that anyone who doesn't have $3-4K to spend on a piano should consider one. They are probably the most promising out of the Chinese brand names in the market.

Yep, couldn't agree more! It's hard to swallow for the non-Asians out there, but the Chinese r here to stay, unless u have wads of cash to throw at the rest of the world.
Anyway, u have to compare apples with apples, not with lemons! If it's an issue with 'out of tune' pianos, I don't see why that's the piano-maker's fault. I suspect for many pianists out there, only a European/Japanese brand name can invoke their 'hearing & mental' senses to come alive. 
And speaking of Chinese desserts, I'm curious to know wat donjuan thinks of Chinese dishes. 'Blech' as well?

[donjuan]

And speaking of Chinese desserts, I'm curious to know wat donjuan thinks of Chinese dishes. 'Blech' as well?

oh no no no!! I love chinese dishes - my family and I go out for dim sum every week and I always eat at chinese places at the mall whenever I go.  It's just the desserts... yuck!  mooncakes?? what the hell is up with that s**t??  and I remember going over to a friends house for Chinese new years and they served up these really nasty oily cakes made from "glutinous rice roll" (mmmm dont that sound good ).  It was so nasty because it was like halfway between being considered solid and liquid.  eww it was like eating a bowl of snot!  and then they put "red bean paste" (mmmm dont that sound good  ) on every dessert ... I can go on and on about chinese desserts... but I love the main dishes - singapore fried vermicelli etc.
donjuan

[iumonito]

These Chinese makers should get the great Chinese pianists to sponsor them.  Yundi Li, Xiaohan Wang, Lang Lang.

Nordiskas have a lot of potential too, btw.

[Axtremus]

I've recently come across this very interesting web page listing TONS of Chinese manufacturers/factories and their associated brand names/stencils, and it's only a partial list. (I think erecording's "25+ manufacturers" is a grave underestimation going by this list.) With hundreds of brand names, it's like the USA's piano scene in pre-depression era.

The web page is in Chinese, so you need to know Chinese to make sense out of it. Here's the link:

https://www.cmii.com.cn/xinxiwenzhang/news/old/20040218-3.htm

Enjoy!

donjuan wrote about a certain Chinese dessert dish:

"... it was like halfway between being considered solid and liquid.  eww it was like eating a bowl of snot!"

Uhm... the exact same words describe ice cream as well, if you leave it outside a freezer for a few minutes.

[donjuan]

Uhm... the exact same words describe ice cream as well, if you leave it outside a freezer for a few minutes.

yes, but you see, ice cream is not made with "glutinous rice roll" and half cooked eggs, all smothered with grease. ewww

[Keoni]

Donjuan, if I were on an eXtreme challenge with u, I'd win u hands-down! Seriously there's alot of chinese tradition n history behind the mooncake story, n that's wat's important to them. I believe the chinese don't eat wat they eat for the pure sake of 'deliciousness'. Anyway, mooncakes r bad for cholesterol levels. Hey this is turning into a discussion on chinese food! Remember people ... China pianos ...

[Axtremus]

Right... right... Chinese Pianos...

Piano Museum in China: LINK HERE

News article on Chinese pianos and China's growing middle class: LINK HERE.

World largest grand piano:
Made by BeiJing-XingHai in 1959, measures 440cm (14.4ft) long and 172cm (5.6ft) wide, weighs two metric tons. Article and picture LINK HERE.

Piano production statistics from 2001: LINK HERE
Left-most column is the index, then the name of manufacturer/factory, then total number of units produced in that year, then number of uprights produced, then the number of grand pianos produced, then the number of pianos (uprights and grands combined) exported. (Highest producing manufacturers by unit count that year were Pearl River, BeiJing, DongBei, TianJin, ShangHai, Yantai-LongFeng, then a bunch of smaller manufacturers.)

If you have more recent data that you are willing to share, I would love to see it.

[donjuan]

Donjuan, if I were on an eXtreme challenge with u, I'd win u hands-down! Seriously there's alot of chinese tradition n history behind the mooncake story, n that's wat's important to them. I believe the chinese don't eat wat they eat for the pure sake of 'deliciousness'. Anyway, mooncakes r bad for cholesterol levels. Hey this is turning into a discussion on chinese food! Remember people ... China pianos ...

hahaha sounds like someone can't win an argument!!  I dont care if mooncakes are all about overthrowing the mongols in the 14th century, (or shooting down suns in another version)  They taste like crap!

haha Im gonna get a warning from the moderator for disrupting the thread like this.. 
donjuan   

[c18cont]

Maybe we should open this back up, as two Chinese students are part of the Van Cliburn comp this year.

Wonder if they play a Chinese piano?

John Cont

[c18cont]

P.S.

Remember, THREE of the SIX finalists are WOMEN...and from ASIA....

John Cont

[Axtremus]

Maybe we should open this back up, as two Chinese students are part of the Van Cliburn comp this year.

Wonder if they play a Chinese piano?

John Cont

Simple way to check -- pull up their bio's from the cliburn.org website, see where they get their professional training in the last X years (e.g., Julliard, Curtis, Moskow Conservatory, etc.), then find out if these schools stock their practice rooms with Chinese pianos. Chances are, for professionals aiming to win competitions, practising regularly on anything other than a Steinway is risky (and hence very rare) for the simple reason that 90%+ of the time they know they will be provided Steinways in competitions.

But if your question is whether these Chinese prodigies at one time learnt/practised on Chinese pianos (e.g., while they were still in China), then very possibly YES.

Pearl River is a big manufacturer, the biggest in China, possibly among the top three biggest manufacturers of acoustic piano in the world going by unit count. I would not be surprised if it organizes and/or sponsors many piano competitions in China. I think it would be very interesting to watch those competitions and see just what levels of performance the prodigies can coax out of Pearl River pianos. Too bad we (perhaps it's only I) in the US does not have access to them (e.g., no webcast a la Van Cliburn).

[c18cont]

Thanks for the excellent reply....

In fact, as I did recently buy the 5''2" Ritmeuller (and am very pleased) I discovered there is a news section on the Pearl River web site...but I havn't checked it in a few weeks...maybe it will have more info now...

They do show puplicity pics of some artists, including their concert with some 100 and something piano's at the same time...(Don't you just love the Chinese for these kinds of ideas....??), and a beautiful shot of two students and a 9 footer on stage...

John Cont

[c18cont]

Almost a month later....

It is a 5'1", not 2"..Ritmuller....and I do love it...It is great sounding and playing...No problems have shown up at all, and I still have 2 free tunings coming....Will wait a few weeks more and get the first one I guess...

I tell you, even having been on organ for a number of years, I am not a total dummy, and this  piano is a GREAT value for the money, no doubt about it....I am just as proud of it as many of you are with your top of the line,..promise!!!

Regards,   John

[griffins dad]

Try out a Ritmuller (hand-built version of Pearl River) in a 6ft or 7ft with Renner action. I think you'll agree it is as good or better than a new Yamaha (most of which are now built in China) at a fraction of the cost. The 30 year reign of the Japanese piano would appear to be coming to a close.

Yamaha pianos are not made in China.  That is an absurd statement!

[c18cont]

Hi Griffins Dad,

Well....someone put on the urls in the tinypic.com listings.. in one of our threads....and there they were...in the factory...Guangzhou...Yamaha and pearl river packed and ready to go...side by side...UNLESS......It was a "made up" fake photo of some kind...

Anyone know? Now the two listings I had are not working anymore....(I believe they were:    tinypic.com/5480bt3  and  tinypic.com/5480bz1......but the five could be an "s"...haven't tried an s...)

Regards,   John

[jr11]

Hi Griffins Dad,

Well....someone put on the urls in the tinypic.com listings.. in one of our threads....and there they were...in the factory...Guangzhou...Yamaha and pearl river packed and ready to go...side by side...UNLESS......It was a "made up" fake photo of some kind...


Regards,   John

That was me who posted those photos. They are authentic, taken by the head Pearl River tech while on a factory tour earlier this year. Feel free to verify this fact with Yamaha or Pearl River, as you wish. Steinway is now building their entire Estonia line there as well. That factory has state-of-the-art production facilities, necessary capacity, good shipping access and handling, and cost-effective labour rates. It's just a business decision, one that is necessary to remain competitive. Producers change their manufacturing locations all the time, in any industry, for a variety of reasons.

[Axtremus]

Griffin's Dad,

With regards to whether there are Yamaha-branded pianos being manufactured in China, the answer is YES, but for the full story, you also have to know that (1) So far we've only identified three UPRIGHT Yamaha models being made in China, the C110A, the CJ-121 and the U121C, and so far the story is that those Yamaha-branded pianos that are made in China are sold in China and not exported. Furthermore, if you're talking grand piano, except for the GB1 model that is made in Indonesia, all other Yamaha-branded grand pianos are made in Japan (i.e., no Yamaha-branded grand piano is made in China). This was discussed at length not long ago. Please read the following topic for full detail:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,8832.msg91839.html#msg91839

And, JR11, Steinway does NOT build the Estonia line in China. You probably mean to say "Essex" line, and that would be true. Steinway the corporation has contracted Pearl River to build their Essex-branded pianos (they previously had Young Chang built the Essex line).

Regardless of where a piano is made, a good piano is a good piano, a bad piano is a bad piano.

[beach917]

My 2 cents is that Pearl River is a good piano...I would say it's on par with another Chinese made piano...Wyman  They're more or less entry level grands...It's no Yamaha, Steinway or Kawai RX, but you get what you pay for and if you like it that's what matters 

[jr11]

And, JR11, Steinway does NOT build the Estonia line in China. You probably mean to say "Essex" line, and that would be true. Steinway the corporation has contracted Pearl River to build their Essex-branded pianos (they previously had Young Chang built the Essex line).

Regardless of where a piano is made, a good piano is a good piano, a bad piano is a bad piano.

Sorry Axtremus, I stand corrected, I meant Essex. And I couldn't agree more about the good/bad piano statement! 

[c18cont]

Well,

For me, with limited space and VERY limited pocketbook as a retired educator, (Not from uni, unfortunantly...I was back teaching high school when I retired....), the Ritmuller was a good choice indeed...As I understand, they bought the Ritmuller name in ...maybe 1992, or so..(?) and it includes the Renner action, and that should be a plus.

I got the piano as they ran out of the Pearl River model I wanted, so the owner, who is also a friend, offered me the Ritmuller at the same price, which they have a right to do, after all...So it was a savings for me.

As to the plant in question; general observations suggest it is very well designed and run, which info is available at a large number of web locations. They should be able to produce a highly servicable instrument for any of the larger company's I would think..

Thanks,   John

[c18cont]

Sorry,

Pearl River bought out Ritmuller in 1999, not 1992...

John

[c18cont]

One other "by the way" about Pearl River and Ritmuller...,

The new grands, inc. the 4'7" baby,all the way to 9', include correct pedal action, including the sostenuto...

John

[c18cont]

Same Question...With China reval. currency,

Will we see an increase in the price of Pearl River in the West?

John

[jeremyjchilds]

Pearl River pianos have a lot of varience...

I have a friend and fellow tech who owns a piano store. and he tells me of thousands of pianos from a single production run that are flawed, but not pulled from the market. We are talking about big problems like soundboard, bridge, and tuning block problems...

Having said that, I would say that a good pearl river piano is better than a bad Yamaha... so if you find one, you are very lucky..unless you are a brand snob

[c18cont]

I do have some more info on this...from the people from whom I bought my Ritmuller...and from a tech from the guild as well...

It would seem that indeed a few runs of perhaps hundreds...(He didn't say.... thousands...), would be less well made, but any of them can be put right, and perform very well indeed, if they are carefully surveyed, and prepped...which a store should do anyway...It needs CAREFUL survey, over more than one visit to be assured of value...and he suggested it for my Ritmuller as well, but found nothing of consequence wrong with my piano...(All this from the tech, a well regarded person locally...)

HOWEVER...from the store rep, and a rep for Pearl River, who was at the store...THE VERY high grade mass production CONTROLS used at this enormous plant, absolutely will not allow the suggested hundred of pianos to pass, period. (?) I do know that even American experts are impressed with the way this plant produces, and the controls in place...and they are making some models for MANY other company's now...

Comments?   John

[c18cont]

Sorry, :-[got off in my own little world and forgot....,

Tuning block/soundboard/bridge......This sounds much more serious, and I hope it is incorrect or at least not as bad as it sounds, looking at the number being produced and sold...if real, something should be done to change the situation...BUT--

Also..is it possible at least in part...?,.. That the complaints ALSO reflect the natural American distaste for China and Chinese products...perhaps even reflecting our distaste for their system of government, and the threat to Taiwan...?

[jr11]

I have a friend and fellow tech who owns a piano store. and he tells me of thousands of pianos from a single production run that are flawed, but not pulled from the market. We are talking about big problems like soundboard, bridge, and tuning block problems...

I am very suprised to hear this... did you hear of this in the last month or so? There was a flaw in the finish of a run from a few days a few months ago in the factory, but nothing structurally I was aware of.

Is your friend who owns the store a Pearl River dealer? There are some tight rivalries for market share here that may cause some stories to be less than reliable from non-PR dealers.

[jeremyjchilds]

These are things I hear...though I  have seen only a few used pianos that would justify believing this...

I would normally not believe this but this was said Kind of "friend to friend." so though it may have been an exaggeration on his part,  the moral of the story is to always check out the individual piano rather than making generalizations about branding...

I'm not trashing Pearl River, just a helpful warning...

As for the hundreds\thousands discrepancy...you're probably right. Maybe he heard it from a friend of a friend...

[c18cont]

To mention the pricing again...

Local dealer says nothing for him has changed yet...so I assume it will be a while before the change in the Chinese money standard changes any prices. They are having another sale right now, but it is of University units mostly, inc. several Pearl River....But you know how school piano's can be treated...

I also assume it would be true for most things Chinese....if any prices go up, a lot of things from China may be expected to change..(Should be good for the USA to some level at least...)

They are supposed to build and sell world wide a few "home grown" autos in the next decade or less as I understand...anyone heard this ?  (?)

John