gender stats

[soundtrk]

I'm just curious . . . does anyone have a grasp of numbers of what proportions of all pianists are of either gender. By pianists I mean both concert pianists, amateurs, students, and teachers (though I have the feeling that the gender distribution might be quite different there?...) Would you say it's 50-50? Or skewed either way? I have the impression that there seem to be more male "famous" pianists but if all levels of ability are included maybe that's not true.

p.s. I hope I'm not offending anyone by this post . . . this is purely to satisfy my curiosity.

[pianonut]

concert pianists 99:1  men's favor
teachers  99:1 women's favor

that's counting the vast numbers of private teachers.  men are hardly allowed in MTNA meetings (just like the grilling they give women in professional performance posts).  if more women were allowed to be concert pianists (instead of being given pablum music) they would rule the world.  thus, eliminating war and establishing peace through music.  (actually, i am not a feminist).

[SDL]

The music industry is a very sexist one.  I know of a very famous founder of a major competition who has never let a female win yet.  2nd prize maybe.  Because SHE has to be top.   However, some of the male winners have not done as well as the females that did win 

I also think the media look for good looking pianists these days although most of the men dont have to be it seems (have you noticed?!)

[pianonut]

yes.  it is a very physically challenging degree and profession.  you have to be sort of blend of hyperactive and have the ability to perform according to a concert schedule and not always your best days (which i think is harder for women).

i have always had fun giving men a run for their money.  if you want to learn harder repertoire you just do it.  you don't wait for someone to give you a green light and say 'ok, you can play mussorgsky's pictures at an exhibition.'  if i did that, i would never play it.  so, i am learning it.  maybe i will never be a concert pianist, but i can die trying.  i don't care what my professors say to me!  well, i take it into consideration...and often do exactly what they tell me to do in terms of practicing my pieces, but in terms of advancement, you have to plan your own career path sometimes - and connect (as men often do) by networking and staying in touch with lots of people.

[apion]

99.5% of the most challenging pieces in the standard repertoire were composed by males (thus males have an inherent advantage in performing those pieces, I suspect).  Moreover, some of the toughest pieces require large hands that most females do not have.  How many females can play the octave trills in the Brahms piano concerti?  Like 5 in the world.

[soundtrk]

Alright. So I guess we've established the stats for concert pianists. Now . . . what about the amateurs and the students? It should be much more balance there, but by how much? It would be especially interesting to hear from teachers and from students currently in a conservatory or the music department of a university/college...

[anda]

How many females can play the octave trills in the Brahms piano concerti?  Like 5 in the world.

i can name 5 in my area only. so, i don't think hand span is really an important diference between male & female pianists.

[Daevren]

I think its not the physical element but the mental. Woman generally have broader interests than males. Then females are sometimes seen as females, they gender becomes a gimmick. Then males may discriminate females on their gender. Or females believe they will.

But I think first and foremost, its that woman generally do not put all their energy into one thing, be it music, science or whatever. If they wanted there would be more females. In jazz and rock there are almost none. So all the very good ones are male. The good female ones either (have to) use a gimmick to get famous. And if they don't they still get viewed at as a female first and a musician secound.   

Of course I am talking about instrumentalists. For some reason most female musicians are singers. Maybe because of the totally different quality a female voice has compared with a male.

[pianonut]

women have a large repertoire to choose from that is not difficult for their hand span.  even if they have limited reaches, they do posses capabilities much the same in terms of memory, touch (can be differentiated sometimes from men), interpretation (usually more conservative, i think, which may account for less flamboyance and risk taking-which may not excite the listeners as much - depending on the listeners).

i agree about having to be more involved in day-to-day work.  men can more easily 'hide away' and do their practice and performing, whereas, if a woman has a family (they usually come first) they have to work around the existing time left to practice. 

clara schumann was an amazing lady to live in the 18th century (so much more work) and still make time to practice.  this should be an inspiration to anyone who thinks they don't have enough time in a day (me).  it's really what you set your mind to do. 

[apion]

clara schumann was an amazing lady to live in the 18th century (so much more work) and still make time to practice.  this should be an inspiration to anyone who thinks they don't have enough time in a day (me).  it's really what you set your mind to do. 

I agree that Clara Schumann probably takes the prize for the most amazing spouse of a composer. 

[wintervind]

In her time Clara was much more famous than her husband, in fact, it is mostly because of her (and Brahms) that Robert's music is known and performed today. During his life, he constantly had to live in the shadow of his most talented wife. When they would go on tour she would recieve all the attention while Robert would have to remind people who he was. he was indeed jealous her. This was a huge point of contention between the two but Clara, no matter how much Robert acted like a child, knew his genious and championed his music well to the end of her life.
Not only did she have 8(?) children by Robert, but she rivaled even the arrogant Liszt at the keyboard.
She is by far, one of the most important figures in the history of piano

[SDL]

Apion your post comes accross as sexist; I say this because from experience its usually boys or very insecure men that generally try and assert "strength" and the insinuation of "bigger" or "longer" reach as a precursor for "better than" ! 

btw 8ve trills are not impossible - you are talking 9ths max reach!  Alicia de la Roccha has a small hand - she plays Rach3.  If you read the other posts in this forum you will see how of little importance strength and reach have when playing the piano.   Do you know that Daniel Barenboim has a 9th reach, and Ashkenazy 9th/10th?

[SDL]

Apion - dont take it personally - its just an observation.