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Topic: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"  (Read 6050 times)

Offline LovePiano

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Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
on: April 01, 2005, 02:27:57 PM
Hope to get help on purchasing a piano:  with 17K t0 18K budget, I am thinking to buy a Kawai Rx-2 for my son who is taking piano lessons.  (Initially, I was looking at Boston GP178, but the store asks for $22,990 without tax that is too high for me).  Then I stopped at a piano store that has the Petrof.  The storeowner strongly suggests me to by their 5'8" Petrof.  I did some research on Kawai RX-2, but I don't know Petrof.  Could you please suggest which piano should I buy?

Offline Axtremus

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #1 on: April 01, 2005, 05:29:26 PM
Are you in the US? Are those $ figures in US Dollar? How well can your son play right now? (What RCM or ABRSM grade, or what pieces he's working on right now?) How well do you play yourself?

Assuming you're in the US and those numbers are in USD, check out Yamaha C2, Estonia 168, and RX-3, and Petrof III in addition to Kawai RX-2 and Petrof IV. Assuming the dealer prepare those instruments properly, ANY ONE OF THESE will be more than adequate to support your son's piano education all the way through college or even graduate school (if he sticks to piano that long, and  you keep up with the piano's regular maintenance). Which among these to pick is a matter as personal taste -- listen to them all, and just pick the one that sounds best to your ears (and cost the least money to buy if they "just as good as each other" to you).

Depending on how competent your son is as a pianist, he can help you play/listen/judge the pianos. If you don't have enough confidence in your son's skill/discernment just yet and you do not play yourself, find some other pianist in whom you have more confidence and get his/her help (e.g., your son's piano teacher might be a start). The pianist does the playing, you do the listening and judging.

ANY of these piano will do, there is no wrong answer, just get the one you like best, and the one that cost you the least if you find yourself liking a few of them about as much.

Good luck. :)

(There may well be other options around that price range, I list only those I've played.)

Offline LovePiano

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #2 on: April 01, 2005, 06:37:17 PM
Are you in the US? Are those $ figures in US Dollar? How well can your son play right now? (What RCM or ABRSM grade, or what pieces he's working on right now?) How well do you play yourself?

Assuming you're in the US and those numbers are in USD, check out Yamaha C2, Estonia 168, and RX-3, and Petrof III in addition to Kawai RX-2 and Petrof IV. Assuming the dealer prepare those instruments properly, ANY ONE OF THESE will be more than adequate to support your son's piano education all the way through college or even graduate school (if he sticks to piano that long, and  you keep up with the piano's regular maintenance). Which among these to pick is a matter as personal taste -- listen to them all, and just pick the one that sounds best to your ears (and cost the least money to buy if they "just as good as each other" to you).

Depending on how competent your son is as a pianist, he can help you play/listen/judge the pianos. If you don't have enough confidence in your son's skill/discernment just yet and you do not play yourself, find some other pianist in whom you have more confidence and get his/her help (e.g., your son's piano teacher might be a start). The pianist does the playing, you do the listening and judging.

ANY of these piano will do, there is no wrong answer, just get the one you like best, and the one that cost you the least if you find yourself liking a few of them about as much.

Good luck. :)

(There may well be other options around that price range, I list only those I've played.)

Offline LovePiano

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #3 on: April 01, 2005, 06:51:53 PM
Axtremus:  Thank you for your reply.  Yes, we are in US and the numbers are in USD.  My son is a beginner who has been taking piano lessons for almost 4 years.  Right now, he has Kawai upright.  Do you think a beginner needs to play on a grand piano like those?  Thanks.

Offline Axtremus

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #4 on: April 01, 2005, 10:26:42 PM
Yes, we are in US and the numbers are in USD.  My son is a beginner who has been taking piano lessons for almost 4 years.  Right now, he has Kawai upright.  Do you think a beginner needs to play on a grand piano like those?
Short answer to your question is NO, a lot can be done on an upright before a grand piano is truly needed.

On the subject of what sort of pianos are truly needed for what skill levels, I'll copy-and-paste below what I've written on this subject on another Forum:

Original post linked HERE.

========== Start Quote ==========
Quote
Some one asked:

"For a beginner, child to adult, what is the minimally acceptable piano required to start learning and progress to a point that a dream piano is worthwhile and recommended?"
Yamaha U1 -- [snip old price info that may be outdated already]. Without knowing the specific circumstances for that particular piano learner, I deem the U1 to be statistically the safest and most reliable choice. You can get a U1 in almost any market that sells pianos, and it usually comes right out of the box OK even if you don't have a good dealer, and it maintains itself well even if you have only a so-so tuner to work on it every once in a long while. It will be sufficient for beginner and intermediate level piano studies. Drawing from the Associated Board of the Royal School of Music (ABRSM) piano proficiency grade scale, the U1 is sufficient to carry a student all the way up to Grade 8 (highest "grade"). The next step on that scale is a Performance Certificate -- the U1 might still do, but that's when I'd recommend considering a grand piano.

[... snip unrelated banter with another forumite ...]

For that next step, again, without knowing that pianist's particular situation, I'd recommend a Kawai RX-2 or a Yamaha C-3 (if affordable) to carry the student through at least the first two years of college/university level piano studies. Yamaha and Kawai are cited because they are available in most markets over the world, very reliable even when you don't have top dealers or top techs to take care of them, very consistent from piano to piano, and represent good value ([snip outdated price info]) since these instruments carry little premium for their brand names while still have the quality, consistency, and long-term track record to make them very safe bets.

There are other good choices, but those choices can rarely match Yamaha and Kawai in terms of availability in most markets across the world, in terms of consistency from instrument to instrument, and in terms of reliability without top-notch expert care. Once you throw away availability, consistency, and reliability, it stops making sense to recommend a piano in broad general terms because you become too market-dependent, are subject to sample variability, and are over-dependent on the experts who care for the piano. (Same caveats with used pianos.)

Beyond that, individuals who manage to out-grow the RX-2/C-3 should be well-developed enough to pick their own pianos without "recommendations" from forumites the likes of us. ;)     

All said, Yamaha U1 for beginners, and Kawai RX-2 and Yamaha C-3 for beginning college/university level piano studeies. These are the only ones I feel comfortable throwing out as blanket recommendations without knowing the particular pianist's individual situation.

[... snip other banter to another forumite ...]
========== End Quote ==========

Good luck. :)

Offline iumonito

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #5 on: April 02, 2005, 02:41:18 AM
No surprise, Ax, I disagree.  I would say about now is the good time to switch to grand action.  The notes are in place, probably Czerny School of Velocity is at hand, French suites and the easier parts of the Well Tempered Clavier, along with the sonatas of Mozart and the easier Beethoven.

Now is the time to switch to grand.  The action operates on a fundamentally different principle: gravity provides resistance and aides repetition.

You can spend much less that what you budgeted.  I recommend Maestoso and the new Knabe (now made by Samick).  You should be able to get an entirely decent brand new piano for very close to $10,000 give or take some.  Do not pay more than 12K for a piano under 6 feet long.  I would also recommend not to buy a piano smaller than 5'8".
Money does not make happiness, but it can buy you a piano.  :)

Offline Axtremus

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #6 on: April 02, 2005, 06:06:59 AM
Sure a grand is nicer. In an ideal world, every body would learn on a heavenly concert grand from day one. But we do not live in an ideal world.

In the real world, I've seen enough piano students thriving just fine on uprights that I do not feel a grand is truly necessary for pianistic progress for most people in most cases. Furthermore, I see no correlation between a person's pianistic achievement and the quality of the piano he owns or practise on regularly, even among advanced pianists. So I'm quite comfortable crediting most of a person's pianistic achievement to his hard work, persistence, talent, and the instruction he received, and attribute very little of that success to the instrument itself.

I forgot to mention in the previous post, but certainly the question of "when would a student need to transition to a grand piano" can (and probably should) be asked in the "Teaching" and "Student's Corner" forums.

As for piano recommendations, what I wrote in the previous post I sought universal applicability. I have a healthy dose of respect for Keith Kerman and I have played a few Samick/Knabes in the past that I thought were rather nice. But unless you go to Keith Kerman's one and only shop in Maryland, you're not going to find a Maestoso. What we know as new "Knabe" in North America may go by some other names in other parts of the world, or may not be distributed in other parts of the world at all. So it's hard to include them in a general recommendation without knowing where that student is.

I hope this clarifies better where I'm coming from. :)

Offline LovePiano

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #7 on: April 04, 2005, 12:45:58 PM
Thank you all for your opinions.  It sounds like that the grand is nice to have, but the student actually does not need to practice on a grand to express the music better.  If purchase, the Kawai RX-2 or Yamaha C-3 would be the good choices.  It is hard ...

Offline LovePiano

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #8 on: April 14, 2005, 03:40:44 PM
After long and hard thinking, I feel like to buy a grand for my son now.  My reason is that if I will buy it 2 years later, it might be good to get it now to start to enjoy it.  Choices narrowed down to Kawai RX-3 or Yamaha C-3.  I got price quotes for about 19K for each, the RX-3 is a few hundred dollor lower.  So the decision might be RX-3.  What do you guys think?  Thanks ahead. 

Offline ghostclaws

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #9 on: April 19, 2005, 03:21:06 AM
C3 and RX3, I think you cannot go wrong with either piano. I personally like them both.
...and insofar as getting a grand for a young evolving pianist...I can only relate an anecdote. A teenage friend of my daughter came to a party at our house and was playing on our grand piano in our living room. He was so impressed with the sound of the piano that he commented:"...if I have this piano at my house, I would practise piano at least 2 hours a day..."
And at that time, my grand was just a 5'2" Young Chang grand...
With a C3 or RX3, your son will probably be practising at least 3 hours a day...just by the process of extrapolation!

My advice: Go for it. A good piano is truly inspiring!

GC

Offline LovePiano

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #10 on: April 30, 2005, 12:01:49 AM
Decided to buy the RX-3 and paid for it.  The piano supposes to be brand new, tuned and come from the warehouse.  But, I got some bad luck.  The 1st one delivered IS brand new, but it is in wrong finish, suppose to be ebony polish but was ebony satin.  I called the sale's person, and they exchanged one.   The 2nd one is in the correct finish, but it might be a floor sample for a few months and it is not well prepared.  The paddles look not as new as my trade-in one (we took very good care of our old one) and the color of those brown plates (key area and other places) have changed.  At least 2 keys are echoing when you play.  I guess the store is out of the RX-3 and sent me the floor sample without good preparation.  The only good thing is that when I talked to the customer service staff, they said that they would order a new one for me.  It will take about 2 months...  >:(

Offline iumonito

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #11 on: April 30, 2005, 04:03:42 AM
I am glad to see you decided on a grand.  Good call.

I am sorry to hear the transaction is not going very smoothly, but if its any consolation, you should know that you are entitled to a lot of good service from your dealer and lots of moral support from all of us.

Keep the humidity constant around 40% and read the warranty.  You want no surprises if something breaks.

Also, get the piano tuned a couple of weeks after the summer starts in earnest, and same in winter.  And find the tuner that will do voicing as a matter of course.  Pin turners abound, but good tuners are scarce.  You can recognize them because good tuners always always always consider voicing part of the tuning.  You can also tell because they work fast, the best tuner is the one that twists those pins only the strictly necessary.

Post often if you have questions.
Money does not make happiness, but it can buy you a piano.  :)

Offline hgiles

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #12 on: May 20, 2005, 06:26:58 PM
Kawai RX-3 should be more than adequate.    Quite a lovely instrument IMO.  I think you made the right choice.

Offline LovePiano

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Re: Kawai Rx-2 or Petrof 5'8"
Reply #13 on: June 27, 2005, 05:18:37 PM
After about 8 weeks of waiting, our RX-3 arrived!  This time, even it is brand new, I bought my son's piano teacher to the piano warehouse and checked it out before delivering.  The sound of this piano is really beautiful and we all like it.   

Thank you all for your comments.  Your inputs and information on this web site are really helpful.
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