your Favorite piano Concerto

[argerichfan]

...I heard John Ogdon's recording of the Busoni Piano Concerto and it blew every other concerto I've ever heard (and that's A LOT) out of the water!

Who recommended that recording? 

[ahinton]

Who recommended that recording? 

Ogdon's recording of the Busoni Piano Concerto was long thought to be the first ever made, despite its release a whole 65 years after the première, but in fact it was the first ever released; Egon Petri recorded at least some of in the 1930s but it was not issued at the time and Noël Mewton-Wood recorded it shortly before his untimely death more than half a century ago, under the baton of Beecham, no less (I'm not aware that Beecham ever performed the work on any other occasion) but this was released only a few years ago.

I believe that Ogdon's account of the piece is one of the very finest ever recorded, although the orchestral playing on it leaves rather a lot to be desired. As for the piece itself, well, it is what it is and I can do no better than repeat Sorabji's view of it, expressed to me more than 30 years ago - "the highest point the the piano concerto had ever reached - and it still is!". I heard Carlo Grante play it live in Rome a few years ago conducted by Fabio Luisi (who has also performed it with Marc-André Hamelin); a fine performance with the most wondrous male chorus in its finale that I have ever had the great good fortune to hear!

Someone once asked me why I'd not written a piano concerto myself and I did not even have to think about the reply, which was that Busoni had already done it...

Best,

Alistair

[darkstar87]

Beethoven G major
Mozart  D minor
Prokofiev c major
brahms b flat
Schumann

[argerichfan]

Alistair, thank-you for your interesting comments on the Busoni.  I had no idea Egon Petri ever recorded any of the Busoni- was it ever released?  I have the Mewton-Wood, along with five other recordings, including Ogdon of course.  I think I recommended the Ogdon to orangesokaking on another forum. 

A pity Busoni passed on so prematurely.  Imagine the recordings he could have left us had he lived, say, 15 years longer.   

[retrouvailles]

A pity Busoni passed on so prematurely.  Imagine the recordings he could have left us had he lived, say, 15 years longer.   

Nevermind that, imagine the compositions he could have left us instead!

[ahinton]

Nevermind that, imagine the compositions he could have left us instead!

Indeed (he'd have finished Doktor Faust, for starters) - and, who knows what he might have conducted? Rakhmaninov's symphonies? Mahler? Skryabin? Schönberg?... Busoni the conductor is often overlooked; during his final two decades, he actually conducted almost as many performances of his piano concerto as he played (and most of its performances during his lifetime involved him either as pianist or as conductor).

Best,

Alistair

[argerichfan]

Indeed (he'd have finished Doktor Faust, for starters) - and, who knows what he might have conducted?

This is all too sad to read.  Currently, I cannot think of another opera I would rather see than Doktor Faust, finished or not.  (Well of course there's Palestrina and Death in Venice, but I digress.  I wouldn't mind another Frau or I Puritani... hehe.)

Now... do I have this correct?  Busoni once conducted the glorious Enigma Variations?  I'm sure I read that somewhere.  If it was good enough for Rachmaninov and Mahler, then why not Busoni?

In the previous issue of Gramophone, Philip Kennicott mentions discussing Enigma with John Adams.  Adams was very complimentary of this masterpiece... always high praise from another composer.

Now here is a REAL humdinger!  It was reported that in the late '80's Krzysztof Penderecki walked into a record store in the US and purchased two cassettes: Rachmaninov's 1st symphony and Elgar's Enigma.   One of the most awesome musical minds of the late 20th century, and that is what he bought?  

[redbaron]

And possibly Liszt 1

[redbaron]

Masterpiece.

Thal

Is that sarcasm Mr Thalberg?

I know you don't like Schumann   

[liordavid]

the Kullak piano concerto. I doubt a lot of you know of it

[thalbergmad]

I know it and love it. Certainly it should be played more often, perhaps in place of the too often trundled out Grieg/Schumann shite.

It was an excellent idea to couple it with the "Mendelssohn on crack" Dreyschock concerto. Shame there was not enough room on the disk for the Dreyschock Concertpiece, which is a balls out shameless virtuoso display piece guaranteed to send the Schumanites running to their pc's to criticise it.

Thal

[redbaron]

Rach 3 ain't bad either

[thalbergmad]

I would rather listen to the Howells 1st for the 3rd time than the Rach 3 for the 300th.

Thal

[redbaron]

Then there's Mozart 27...

[thalbergmad]

If you like Mozart Concerti, you will love Stamitz F Major.

Thal

[redbaron]

I'm not really a fan of the Mozart concerti or even of the Classical era in general, but I do like No 27. It's a similar thing with Schumann. I agree with everything you say about his music, it's crap but I do love his piano concerto. This and the Eintritt from Waldszenen are the only two of his piano pieces that I actually like.

[thalbergmad]

I am at my happiest in the 19th Century, but have found some pleasure in the 18th and 20th.

Woelfl Concerto 1 is another Mozartian type piece that I enjoy listening to. Infact, i think it will be my Sunday pre sleep relaxation concerto.

Thal

[redbaron]

How could I forget the Yellow River Piano Concerto...

[thalbergmad]

I think the Chinese call it Yellow Liver.

Thal

[redbaron]

Ravel G major is quite fun

[pocho]

Combo breaker..?

I'll just go ahead and paste the list I made in another thread(plus a few extra additions).

Goetz 2
Jadassohn 2
D'Albert 2
Thuille
Moszkowski
Bortkiewicz 1
Delius
Woelfl 1
Paisiello 6, 8

[thalbergmad]

I say sir, we have similar tastes.

I could very happily listen to all of those in one sitting. Infact, I have just finished listening to the Woelfl 1 as we speak.

Thal

[argerichfan]

How could I forget the Yellow River Piano Concerto...

What a total, bloody joke that is. 

And I just love it...   

[pocho]

I say sir, we have similar tastes.

You have great taste, I must say.

[ahinton]

I think the Chinese call it Yellow Liver.

I think that the Japanese might be rather more likely to call it that, but you have a point nevertheless.

Best,

Alistair

[wert718]

Rubenstein 4th in d
Rachmaninoff 3rd in d
Prokofiev 2nd

[furiouzpianist]

Liszt Concerto 1
Liszt Totentanz
Grieg Concerto

[liordavid]

the Kullak piano concerto. I doubt a lot of you know of it

I guess that is for more technical preferences. For pure musical simplicity and beuaty, I will go with the Liszt 2nd

[sjeon]

Mozart 20,21
Rach 2,3

[wildejagd]

Variations on a Nursery Rhyme op. 25 by Dohnanyi. That piece is nasty, but amazingly fun to play.

Also the Saint Saens 2nd.

[arvhaax93]

My top two favorite are Rachmaninoff's 3rd Concerto and Rachmaninoff's 4th Concerto.  His 4th is unfortunately not very well-known but I love it. 

[cazico]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Saint Saëns no 5. It is in my opinion one of the most underrated piano concertos.
For those who have not yet heard this wonderful piece:

(great performance by Bidini).

[orangesodaking]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Saint Saëns no 5. It is in my opinion one of the most underrated piano concertos.
For those who have not yet heard this wonderful piece:

(great performance by Bidini).

Saint Saens 4 and 5 are two piano concerti I REALLY adore!

There's a new recording of the Busoni Piano Concerto available on Youtube. The pianism is spectacular, the orchestra sounds fine (don't know really how to rate orchestras yet in how well they sound), and the choir sounds fine too (same).

About Schumann/Grieg: I recently got an old cassette tape of Radu Lupu with Andre Previn conducting the London Symphony Orchestra with these two concerti on it, and I absolutely fell in love! The third movement of the Schumann especially makes me feel so happy inside.

[birba]

Why is it I can't stand the Schumann piano concerto even when it's played by Argerich?   

[thalbergmad]

Because it is a pile of shite.

No matter how good the pianist, you cannot polish a turd.

Thal

[ahinton]

Because it is a pile of shite.

No matter how good the pianist, you cannot polish a turd.

That's abit unfair - but only abit! When I hear that piece played by Argerich (as she does all too often), I get incensed, not so much by the piece itself but by the time that she's wasting in not devoting her immense gifts to something else - preferably not the Ravel G major, Prokofiev 3 or any other items of her usual fare. I don't believe that even Schumann's piano conceto is as bad as you say, but it is pretty bad, particularly by the standards of the composer who wrote that wonderful piano quintet, Genoveva, Scenes from Faust, Études Symphoniques and other far finer works. That said, Schumann was important enough to influence quite a few Romantic and late-Romantic composers...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I don't believe that even Schumann's piano conceto is as bad as you say

Perhaps it is not, but it is my opinion.

The fact that it would not appear in my favourite 1,000 does not make it bad music.

Thal

[orangesodaking]

I was attending a Master Class with Menahem Pressler and he told us that "Music is the language of the ear. I interpreted this to mean that we like music because it sounds good or enjoyable to us; it brings us pleasure."

And since then, that's really helped how I view what I hear. I enjoy greatly the music from the Schumann concerto, especially the third movement. I'm sorry others do not, but that is their opinions.

ANYWAY... What do you guys think of Ginastera 1? 

[birba]

Wild!  Love it!  Not great music, but lots of fun!

[camstrings]

Ginastera has a nice harp concerto also.

Vaughan Williams' piano concerto has its moments, with a nicely building slow movement.

[argerichfan]

Vaughan Williams' piano concerto has its moments, with a nicely building slow movement.

I love that piece, an affection alas not shared by all admirers of VW.  I've read some nasty things about it.  Who cares, their loss...

[thalbergmad]

Indeed, their loss.

It did not appeal to me immediately if memory serves. It took perhaps 2 or 3 hearings, but so did Rach 3.

Thal

[ahinton]

Indeed, their loss.

It did not appeal to me immediately if memory serves. It took perhaps 2 or 3 hearings, but so did Rach 3.

I'm not quite sure what to make of the Vaughan Williams Piano Concerto, actually; I though it to be pretty dreadful when first I heard it and I admit that I've not listened to it many times since, although my estimation of it now is rather less negative than once it was. That said, I really don't find that Vaughan Williams was a piano composer per se, his principal gifts having manifested themselves far more notably in other media; where in any of his piano writing, for example, is there anything that comes remotely close to his fourth, sixth and ninth symphonies, Flos Campi or Serenade to Music?

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

As my ears become more in tune with 20th Century, works such as this begin to become listenable to and on occasions pleasurable. In fact, I might give it another hearing tomorrow.

A friend of mine (not from Amsterdam) is (or was) getting rather excited about the possibility of the Bate 2 or Bate 3 being recorded and since he was supposedly influenced by VW, i guess i should be equally excited. However, my lack of 20th Century brain receptors indicate i would gain more pleasure from the lighter and charming Concerto on Country Dance Themes by Arnold Foster.

Thal

[argerichfan]

However, my lack of 20th Century brain receptors indicate i would gain more pleasure from the lighter and charming Concerto on Country Dance Themes by Arnold Foster.

Good grief, thal, don't know that one at all, perhaps not surprising from our local -and much loved- piano concerto authority. 

[argerichfan]

That said, I really don't find that Vaughan Williams was a piano composer per se, his principal gifts having manifested themselves far more notably in other media; where in any of his piano writing, for example, is there anything that comes remotely close to his fourth, sixth and ninth symphonies, Flos Campi or Serenade to Music?

Well no argument per se, though you could have added the 5th symphony.  Yes?

It is well known that the VW concerto was inspired by Busoni's Bach transcriptions.  VW does not elaborate which one, though I highly suspect VW took his inspiration from Busoni's gargantuan arrangement of Bach's Toccata, Adagio & Fugue.  Fair enough? 

VW wasn't much of a composer for piano -Elgar even less so- but the musical material in that concerto is very special to me.  Back at uni I invited two mates of mine to listen one evening.  The three of us were entranced.  No one said a word.  We quietly nursed our drinks, it was awesome, Alistair. 

It's all kind of funny.  Sometimes even the odds-out works of accomplished composers can produce an admiration reserved for a genuinely acknowledged masterpiece such as Serenade to Music.

Don't you just love it? 

[thalbergmad]

Good grief, thal, don't know that one at all, perhaps not surprising from our local -and much loved- piano concerto authority. 

It would probably not be to the liking of our more serious music loving pianistreets residents. If memory serves, it has variations of Bobby Shafto included. A theme ignored by Sorabji.

The list of unrecorded piano concertos by British composers is an outrage, that one hopes will be addressed in the coming years.

Thal

[ahinton]

It would probably not be to the liking of our more serious music loving pianistreets residents. If memory serves, it has variations of Bobby Shafto included. A theme ignored by Sorabji.

And several thousand other composers as well, I think it fair to say...

The list of unrecorded piano concertos by British composers is an outrage, that one hopes will be addressed in the coming years.

Between Donohoe's Naxos series and the ongoing Hyperion one the balance is surely being addressed gradually?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Well no argument per se, though you could have added the 5th symphony.  Yes?

Well, yes, I guess, but I didn't want to make too long a list so I just chose those few RVW works that seem to me to be his strongest of all.

It is well known that the VW concerto was inspired by Busoni's Bach transcriptions.  VW does not elaborate which one, though I highly suspect VW took his inspiration from Busoni's gargantuan arrangement of Bach's Toccata, Adagio & Fugue.  Fair enough?

For him, perhaps, but I'm not convinced that it did him a whole lot of good, really!

VW wasn't much of a composer for piano -Elgar even less so- but the musical material in that concerto is very special to me.  Back at uni I invited two mates of mine to listen one evening.  The three of us were entranced.  No one said a word.  We quietly nursed our drinks, it was awesome, Alistair.

Each to their own, of course! It's OK-ish but just doesn't float my boat, I'm afraid. Elgar's piano writing in those penny-dreadful piano and orchestra works, the Concert Allegro and the reconstructed piano concerto certainlhy leaves quite abit to be desired, yet the writing in the violin sonata and piano quintet is surely rather more idoimatic.

Serenade to Music.

Don't you just love it?  

Yes!

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Well, yes, I guess, but I didn't want to make too long a list so I just chose those few RVW works that seem to me to be his striongest of all.

What do you think is his least striongest??

Thal