Rebuilt Steinway

[kingofthepiano]

Hi,

I am thinking of buying a Steinway upright Model K piano. Can anyone tell me how the quality of a rebuilt Steinway (rebuilt by Steinway technicians) would compare to a brand-new Steinway. There is a huge difference in price. What is the difference in quality?

[eventemp]

When you say "Steinway technicians" , do you mean the techs at the Steinway factory in Queens, NY??  Or someone who calls themselves a Steinway tech? 
When I was shopping for my Steinway, first I read "The Piano Book", by Larry Fine...and then after visiting a few homes where a re-built Steinway was for sale..I quickly made up my mind that I was going to buy a used piano from the Steinway dealer, who would give me a new piano guarantee.  The re-builts were surprisingly a hodge-podge of parts, which, while they may be OK, results in a non Steinway piano, which will make it difficult to sell to a knowledgeable buyer, should there ever be a reason to sell.  As usual, high risk=high reward...but I didn't want to take the risk. 

[Michele Felice]

The quality of a rebuilt Steinway depends on who did the rebuilding. Since the quality of new Steinways, as well as those rebuilt at the Steinway factory, varies a good deal (read Larry Fine's description of Steinway quality control), a rebuilt Steinway can easily be a better piano than a new one.

One thing you need to be clear about: a rebuilt piano is, properly speaking, a completely remanufactured instrument with an expected life and level of performance equal to a brand-new piano. If your rebuilt piano includes a new soundboard, strings, hammers, pinblock and an action with all worn parts replaced, the it is truly rebuilt. If it has the old soundboard and pinblock, etc., it is what is properly called a reconditioned piano. Because the cost of rebuilding a piano is very high (roughly equivalent to the price of a new grand piano), uprights are very seldom truly rebuilt.

Also, a rebuilt Steinway can be just as much the real thing as one directly from the factory. The basic structure of the piano and the scale design remains Steinway. The "Steinway sound" is potentially there.

Over the years, Steinways have had a wide range of quality of parts. A replacement part manufactured by another company might well be better than a "genuine" Steinway part.

The question of quality in a Steinway always depends on the individual piano, even more so than with some other makes of pianos, since Steinway's quality control is quite variable.

In terms of taking some sort of financial "risk" with a piano, I don't think pianos should be looked at as some sort of investment. Pianos are musical instruments; don't confuse the two. If your rebuilt instrument is a good one, and you like it, and you hire a technician to survey it or the dealer gives you a new piano warranty, then go for it. It will serve you well as a musical instrument (but probably not as a financial investment).

[rich_galassini]

Good Post Michele,


     Of course, it is unusual to replace a pinblock and board in an upright, so while I agree with your post in theory, it won't wash with this K.

King,

     How old is the piano you are considering?

   

[kingofthepiano]

Thanks for the replies guys. According to the listing it is a 1889 Steinway rebuilt by Steinway approved technicians. It's not actually model K since that didnt exist then but its the equivalent. Here is a link. Have a look and let me know what you think. The price is the equlivalent of $14000

https://www.besbrodepianos.co.uk/showroom/showroom715.htm

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

[Michele Felice]

The advertisement you linked to does claim that this is a rebuilt piano with new pinblock and sound-board. If so, then you need to play the piano and see whether it fits your performance requirements. The piano finish looks good, as much as can be seen from the low-resolution photos.

But some details visible in the photos suggest that the instrument may be less than it purports to be. First, the plate has not been refinished. Normally, a refinished plate is part of a rebuild (of a grand piano, where the plate is usually visible).  Second, the hammer-line is not perfect. A high quality rebuild usually will show a perfect hammer-line, as would be seen on a new piano. Third, the tuning pins have felt washers at the base, on the plate. I don't think this was standard on Steinways of the period and it may hide cosmetic flaws on the plate surrounding the pin; for example, the "rebuilder" may have used bushings on the tuning pins, which Steinway does not use. This is not a bad change, but the drilling required for installing the bushings may have marred the plate finish. Again, one wonders why the plate was not refinished.

If you love the way this piano performs, then consider it seriously. But unless you feel confident that you can tell whether it has a new pinblock and soundboard, have an independent technician take a look for you.

[Floristan]

This is a lot of money to pay for a rebuilt upright, Steinway or not.  I owned an old Steinway upright for about 10 years and yes, it produced a lot of sound, but it didn't cost me this kind of money (it wasn't rebuilt).  It's very unusual for rebuilders to rebuild uprights of any kind.  I suppose the Steinway name may assure a sale, but still, rebuilding an upright is unusual.

I agree with Michele.  The hammer line looks irregular in these photos, especially in the upper treble.  It shouldn't be.  I've never seen felt bushings at the pin holes -- doesn't mean it's wrong, I've just never seen it.  These things alone would make me take pause.  Plus there is no such thing as an "antique" piano.  The fact that the dealer says he/she sells "antique" pianos is very strange, as though that was a selling point! 

You can surely buy a new Yamaha or Kawai upright for this money, or less.  Or better yet save for a decent small grand.  IMO.

[iumonito]

Thanks for the replies guys. According to the listing it is a 1889 Steinway rebuilt by Steinway approved technicians. It's not actually model K since that didnt exist then but its the equivalent. Here is a link. Have a look and let me know what you think. The price is the equlivalent of $14000

https://www.besbrodepianos.co.uk/showroom/showroom715.htm

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

I am so glad you posted that number.  Nothing personal, but it is absurd to pay that kind of money for any upright (even a brand new Steingraeber, which sadly probably lists for more than that).

I didn't catch where you are located, but you talking about equivalent to US $ and talking with Steinway technicians suggests to me you are in Germany.  Contact Imre Szabo, at www.luxurypianos.com.  He will sell you a very good piano for that kind of money.  A grand.

[kingofthepiano]

Thanks again for the replies. I actually talked directly to the dealer and he said he was selling the piano on behalf of a client. He said it was a nice piano but had the 'old Steinway soft tone' and couldnt compare to a newer Steinway. He said it was in good condition but was more of a furniture piece than a serious playing instrument. So seems he was being quite honest. He also said the price was now reduced to the equivalent of $10000.

And by the way i live in the UK if anyone knows any really good dealers there. Thanks.

[chickering9]

...But some details visible in the photos suggest that the instrument may be less than it purports to be. First, the plate has not been refinished...

When I looked at the web photos last night, I had the same thoughts as Michele.  If they truly went to the effort to put in a new block, I can't understand why they wouldn't have refinished the plate.  I think refinished and refurbished looks more like the appropriate categorization, not rebuilt.  But for $14K, I would expect a *FULL* rebuild, including that plate being pristine, and the good hammer line, etc.  I'd be wary on this one.  That plate tells the story.

Off topic, but a point I wondered about--those 7 notes in the lowest end of the plain-wire end have what appears to be some sort of red felt fitting just above the hammer strike point.  I saw the same thing just last week for the first time on another Steinway upright.  What are those fittings and what do they do?  I'd never seen anything like that on any upright until the one last week and now this makes two.

[pianodoc]

Those would be damper "outriggers"!  Each one is connected via bent wire to the dampers below the hammer.  I've seen some Yamahas with this as well.  If adjusted properly, they really help a LOT in controlling damping problems with this portion of the scale.

[iumonito]

Since you are in the UK, contact Mark Smart at www.smartpianos.com.  Very knowledgeable.  May have a small old Bechstein grand just right for you.  If you decide to go this way, get him to explain to you why Bechstein plates crack and what does that do to the tuning stability of the piano.

He carries Steinways too, but I would think he would be the first to tell you you are paying too much if you get bascially any Steinway.

Ask him whether he has an old Bluthner upright, if you have decided you simply don't have the room for a small grand.

Cheers.

[classicarts]

Since you are in the UK, contact Mark Smart at www.smartpianos.com.  Very knowledgeable.  May have a small old Bechstein grand just right for you.  If you decide to go this way, get him to explain to you why Bechstein plates crack and what does that do to the tuning stability of the piano.

He carries Steinways too, but I would think he would be the first to tell you you are paying too much if you get bascially any Steinway.

Ask him whether he has an old Bluthner upright, if you have decided you simply don't have the room for a small grand.

Cheers.

iumonito, I always see you referring people to your piano guy...lool..what's wrong with you.