Chopin Etudes

[chopiszte]

I am going to finish the Revolutionary soon, what next in your opinion?  I was considering opus 10/8 or 10/4, what do you think?

Also, can any one compare revolution 10/12 with rondo opus 1 in terms of difficulty?

[chopinetta]

revolutionary etude is the simplest. i think you should not take up etude no.4 immediately. try considering other pieces. as mentioned in "crazy chopin pieces" etude op 10 no4 is the most difficult among the first post. you will have to take a lot of technical exercises first.

if you are really serious about it, of course, it is a very good piece (very difficult as well!). no. 8 is also a good piece... isn't this the "butterfly etude"?

rondo op. 1 is longer than, revolutionary, and more difficult too!

but all that you mentioned are beautiful! good luck in learning!

[amee]

Isn't the Butterfly Etude op. 25 no 9?  
Chopinetta has got some excellent points.

[10Fingers]

Yes, i  think it is.

What about the op. 25 no. 2? to my mind that's the easiest one and very beautiful, too!
Or try one of the nuovelles Etudes, maybe no. 3 which is my favourite!

good louck!

[chopinetta]

oh!   i just checked the book! amee is always right!

etude op10 no9 is the butterfly etude!

i don't understand, no8 sounds more butterfly-y than no9... no9 sounds kinda gloomy...

i think you should go for no8 chopiszte! this is what Von Bulow said about no8:

"the most useful exercise in the whole range of etude literature. It might truly be called 'l'indispensable du pianiste,' if the term, through misuse, had not fallen into disrepute. As a remedy for stiff fingers and preparatory to performing in public, playing it six times through is recommended, even to the most expert pianist."

[chopinetta]

oops i'm wrong again. i was talking about op25 nos. 8 and 9!!!

what i wrote is op 10! sorry sorry...

no 9 does sound buttterfly-y!!!

what i'm trying to say is that, the von bulow thing is about op25 no8.

"the most useful exercise in the whole range of etude literature. It might truly be called 'l'indispensable du pianiste,' if the term, through misuse, had not fallen into disrepute. As a remedy for stiff fingers and preparatory to performing in public, playing it six times through is recommended, even to the most expert pianist."

[amee]

Op 25 no 1 is very beautiful as well, its my favourite etude.  I'm not sure how hard it is in terms of difficulty but it is definitely not the easiest etude...all those arpeggios in the right and left hands!  Also your right hand fifth finger needs to be strong to play this etude as it is needed to bring out the melody.

[amee]

Hans Von Bulow was actually one of Liszt's favourite pupils and he married Liszt's daughter, Cosima.  However their marraige was short-lived as Cosima become lovers with Wagner.  After Cosima gave birth to Wagner's child, Bulow suffered a nervous breakdown and eventually divorced her.  Liszt disliked seeing Bulow hurt and went to thrash things out with Wagner and his daughter.  Cosima threw everything Liszt said back in his face and he actually had nothing to do with either of them for the next six years!

[chopiszte]

I have looked/ tryed some of the dificult parts of 10/4, I could play it if I wanted, it would take longer than 10/12 though.

Yes butterfly is 25/9, nice piece, but not "great"

well thanks for all the advice.  I am well aquainted with listening to all of Chopin's pieces, particularly etudes, but pieces can often be deceptive in their sound.

[chopiszte]

amee, Liszt in general wasn't the best father (though not because of this, his daughter was gravely wrong here) and had many love affairs and little time for his lovers or children.

[ned]

I have played them all except op 10/8 and op 10/10.  I was, like many in this forum, obsessed with the Chopin etudes from my teen years. I have only performed the ones that are comfortable for me. I have some pointers for you, which incidentally are shared by my teacher who graduated with honors in performance from the Moscow Conservatory:
1. They are ALL very challenging.
2. Op 10 is mechanically harder than op25.
3. You should read through them all.
4. The most difficult ones require so much time that you may end up ignoring your other repertoire.
The great pianist Ignaz Friedmann said he practiced the etude in thirds five thousand times before he played it in public.
The easiest ones for me are those that have a uniform texture and similar motions by both hands. With this approach I would start with the Ocean, then go in the following order more or less:
Op 25 no 1, no 3, no 9. Then do no 2. Don't overlook op 25 no 5 and 7; they are great music and move at a moderate pace. Op 25 no's 4, 6 and 8 are really nasty. Surprisingly I found the Winter Wind and Octave Etudes to be manageable but very strenuous. I have performed them both.

From op 10, I believe that if you can already do the Revolutionary you will succeed with no 4. It lies well under the hand, so patience will pay off. It is probably the most impressive one to an audience. You should consider preceding it with no 3. According to Chopin's manuscript they were to be played together. Op 10 no 8 is a stunning piece but it has a lot of awkward streches and has to go fast.
No's 1, 2 and 5 are fiendish. No 5 really frustrates me. It  seems so effortless but for me is harder than the Winter Wind. It would be a great encore if you could pull it off. No's 6, 7, 9, 10 and 11 are not on the same level of difficulty as the ones just mentioned but they are not terribly effective as concert selections. Of course if you aspire to play all of op 10 you gotta do 'em.
Ned

[chopinetta]

ok chopiszte, if you want to see how etude no4 op10 looks when played check out this website:

https://www.joetownley.com

joe has got videos of himself doing that etude and chopin's first two scherzos!

hey joe, sorry if i'm advertising your website without your permission but i'm really addicted to watching the chopin videos right now! tempest-Sonata is too!

[chopiszte]

That was an awesome site chopinetta.  Am I annoying you?  I get the impression you're annoyed, I can be obstinate at times, sorry.

Thanks for the advice ned, very helpfull.  I am in my early teens now (just turned 14) and I am beginning to explore the etudes, they are masterpieces.
The revolution is a very emotional piece, wonderfull.

[chopinetta]

hello chopiszte! i'm not anything near to annoyed. i'm not irritated. i'm sorry if that's what i seem to be!

[chopinetta]

hey why don't you listen to SteveK's version of the rev etude and other pieces?

here's the link:

https://www.tonos.com/stephenkopp

[Yoad]

I personaly like 10/4 better, but it is much harder.

[e60m5]

I see a lot of people are going to disagree with my opinion.

However - don't flame me for this - but in my humble opinion, Op.10 no.4 is not at all one of the difficult Chopin etudes. Sure, it's fast, but that doesn't necessarily equate to difficulty. Most of the notes (although definitely not all) are under the fingers, and it's just a matter of having fast chops and so on... In my humble opinion, it's one of the easier Etudes.

I know that many disagree with my opinion, but that's all it is - an opinion.  

[chopinetta]

i understand, well, people are different e60m5, i heard you did islamey already?

so for you, what chopin etudes are the difficult ones?

each of the chopin etudes concentrates on certain things like velocity, dexterity, stretching orf flexibility, etc.

so for example an etude centers much on stretching, but you can stretch your fingers a lot, you will find it easy, but other people who lacks stretching would find it difficult. maybe that's why you find the etude no4 easy because you already have what the etude would work on you.

[amee]

What would be the most difficult Etude in your opinion?
I heard the Winter Wind was the most difficult because of the right hand.  But then again they are all challenging...

[tempest-Sonata]

Hey watch JOE TOWNLY play op. 10/4
JOE TOWNLY YO ARE SOO COOL.
u are soo good too

[chopiszte]

I share e60m5's opinion, it is not as difficult as people want to make it out to be.  

Assuming that a person is equally proficient in every aspect of performance, i would guess that op 25 nos 10 and 11 are much more difficult.  

However, I wouldn't go so far as to call it one of the easier etudes, assuming we're talking about the 5 or 10 easiest.  e60m5 would know more about it im sure, basing my opinion on his video of Islamey

[e60m5]

Chopinette, yeah, I did Islamey. In my other topic, there's a link to a video of my playing it - I'll just repost the link (right click Save Target As... or just let it play in WMP, but it will take forever...):

https://www.cafemaru.net/e60m5/islameyhi.wmv

The most difficult Etude in my opinion? That's tricky for me to say, as I haven't played all of them yet... (intend to so far).

I've so far only played Op.10 no.1, no.3, no.4, no.12, Op.25 no.2. So not many yet - a long way to go before I get to where Ned is with them...  

But looking at the scores: the Etude in thirds (Op.25 no.6) looks pretty fiendish - although, that being said, once one has attained a good thirds technique, most of the piece's difficulty looks like it would melt away. Winter Wind (25/11) of course has its fiendish right hand (and even left hand!) passages, but for the most part, the notes seem to be relatively under the fingers - but still seems to me to be one of the hardest. Op.10 no.2 looks to be very hard to play well - to get the evenness and quicksilver flowing of the notes given the (very) awkward fingering for the top line.

These are just some of my observations from looking at the scores - I haven't played those mentioned in the paragraph above, so I'm just guessing here. However, for each pianist it will be different - I have tiny hands (only reach an octave) so Op.10 no.11 looks pretty difficult for me, but for someone with bigger hands it would be, quite literally, a breeze.  (On a strange note, I never found Op.10 no.1 hard to play even given my small hand size.)

A long way to go before I learn them all, but it's one of my goals and I hope to reach it one day! I've got plenty of time as it is... 15 years into my life, and looking ahead..

Oh, Chopiszte: Perhaps it is not one of the easiest Etudes with regards to technical aspects; in sheer technical terms, there's stuff like Op.10 no.3 to contend with, I guess. So I agree there. I just feel that it's one of the easier ones to play and get up to a performance standard.

And yeah, I've played Islamey - but I hardly feel that having played that gives my opinion an edge, or anything of the sort - we're all learning, after all. I wouldn't say I know better at all, heh  

[ayahav]

I have recently started plying chopin etudes....... I want to play all of them, but I am the type of person who has to do things in disorder, so I can't sit down and play 10.1 first and then 10.2 and so on...... Though many of you might question my choice, I chose to start with 10.4...... I disagree wth those of you claiming that it is really difficult - you just have to know how to "tame" it (it is a wild beast). You have to work it in groups of four slowly at first. 10.1, 10.2 and the thirds, for example, look much more daunting to me........

[Beethoven87]

I, too started with 10/4, and I agree, it is not that difficult once you basically just practise it up to its considerable speed.  I would have to say it's probably one of the most concert-worthy (along with, in my opinion, 10/3, 10/12, and maybe 25/11.

[sel]

I would also like to add i don't really consider op 10 no 4 very difficult. Actually I would say op 10 no 12 is more tiring due to the fact that the arpeggios chromatic scales etc are all in one hand, whereas in op 10 no 4 they alternate. Pianists studying op 10 no 4 would benefit a lot from studying bach, as this etude is very "contrapuntal". Maybe due to my sadistic teachers forcing me to study bach for ages, this etude has become more easy? op 10 no 3 also seems easy for me. though the middle section can be hard to memorize, if you get the "pattern" it flows rather automatically.

[chopiabin]

I'm working on the "oceans" etude ( one of the most beautiful in my opinion), the "black keys" etude, Scriabin's etude op. 8, #11, and the last movement of the moonlight, am I ready for the op.10, #4? I have always loved this etude, and it seems to be one of the most musical of all of them. I have done other things  - polonaise in A major, Scriabin op.2, #1 etc. I just want to know what my chances are.

[ayahav]

When I started playing 10.4 I hadn't played any of the pieces you mentioned. This piece just requires incredible patience in sitting down and playing the runs very very slowly with a metronome. I got it in two days, and from there on the question is what you want to do with it musically.... It's all a matter of shaping it to be the piece you want it to be....

Cheers.

[luda888]

how about the Winterwind Etude?