Keyboard Feeling

[Siberian Husky]

now im a new piano player with only 3-4 months under my belt..i am on the alfred series on book two..i just finished memorizing the Pachelbel's Cannon in D..which is my FIRST real piece aside from small 20-40 second pieces they supply me for excercise and educational value in these book series..anyways...i'v noticed that...when i play..anything..i tend to look down at the keyboard on my piano while i play at times..especially when changing hand positions...i started blindfolding myself and tried playing some pieces..realizing that when blindfolded..im not half as good as when i play with vision...BUT..after practicing this way...i'v gotton many small pieces down to where i dont rely looking at the keyboard anymore..especiially during important hand position changes...my question is...is this really important?..am i wasting my time learning my pieces in a way in which i dont handicap myself by relying on looking at my hands and the keys to make sure im on the right track?...i honestly feel as if im more comfortable when i play since i started this little blindfold thing..anyways..i'd like some feedback..i'd hate to be doing something which isnt really necessary


PS: sorry if this is a retarted question...but its just been buggin me

[silva]

For me if I play something long enough and I really like it then its like I am day dreaming but playing, although I look down at the keys Im not really in focus if you know what I mean. Also if I love a piece of music and have worked hard on it I can basically play them without looking anyway...

If your a singer Im sure this helps as you dont sing into the piano you can sing outward.....

- Silva

[xvimbi]

By all means, look at your hands when you are playing. The old adage "look at the score, always look at the score, have you eyes glued to the score" is not tenable (IMHO). At your stage, you will likely be still overwhelmed with everything that is going on. Nobody expects you to have a perfect keyboard map yet (i.e. you would know exactly where every key is without looking and how to move to reach them). Even the most virtuosic pianists have to look from time to time.

Also, you need to observe your hands and fingers to make sure they are carrying out the correct motions.

So, yes, look!

Having said this, a reliable and accurate keyboard map is a great skill to have, but is not something you should focus on at this point. One way to slowly develop it (and make your playing a lot easier in general) is to think in five-finger patterns. This is, figure out your fingering such that you can play as many notes as possible without moving your hand. Within one hand position (let's call it the 'home position'), you should be able to play the notes without looking at your fingers. You will only have to look when you have to shift your hands.

Shifting hands can be made a lot easier when using certain tricks. My favorite one is finger substitution. Let's say, I have a 'home position' with my thumb on middle C. I play there for a while and then have to move my hand such that the new 'home position' would be with the thumb on the E above middle C. I simply substitute finger 3 with the thumb,  that is leave finger 3 on the E and move the thumb there as well, then relax the hand into the new 'home position'. The presence of finger 3 will guide your thumb. You will not have to look at your hands when you do that, and you can do this irrespective of whether finger 3 plays the E at that point or not. Be aware though that this might lead to some awkward movements. In my example above, you would have to do a thumb-under motion, which is an awkward motion. With practice, you will be able to shift your hand while minimizing awkward movements. You will also slowly ingrain what the distance for an octave or a sixth, etc is. There is no real need to focus on it right now. Just play with an alert and conscious mind at all times, and it will come automatically.

I hope I am making sense.

[marialice]

i honestly feel as if im more comfortable when i play since i started this little blindfold thing..

If it works for you, then by all means continue doing it. You say it makes you feel more secure, that's a great thing. However, don't overdo it. It's not necessary to be able to play everything blindfolded (although it can be great to impress friends and family ), so don't feel obliged to do so.

[BoliverAllmon]

I always look at the keyboard when playing. Sometimes I look up and play though. Don't worry about it. it is ok to look.

[musik_man]

Most pianists look at their hands quite often.  I have a video of Horowitz doing his Carmen Variations, and he's always looking at either his LH or his RH.  Not having to look at your hands mainly comes in handy when sight-reading.  If you're going to memorize the piece there's no reason not to look at your hands.

[pianomann1984]

I have a video of Horowitz doing his Carmen Variations, and he's always looking at either his LH or his RH. Not having to look at your hands mainly comes in handy when sight-reading. If you're going to memorize the piece there's no reason not to look at your hands.

Hahaha, I have that video.  I still have problems watching without screaming for joy at that superhuman playing!..and the way he flicks his head in that aristocratic matter-of-fact way when he finishes...wonderful!  On the point of looking at hands, I agree - when sightreading, it's handy to be able to look up most of the time.  From the point of view of a performing music student at conservatoire level though, I would say that I rarely look at my hands, because I have noticed that it actually changes my sound very subtley!  Also, on the shift front - as you begin to play more complex music, you will see that certain sadistic composers like to write enourmous leaps into their music (classic examples are littered all over the Brahms 2nd Piano Concerto!).  At this point (and probably a good deal before it too!) it becomes essential to know the geography of the piano blindfold.  I think it's great that you have the discipline to literally blindfold yourself - keep it up!  I find a useful practice technique for shifts is to double, or even triple the distance - leaping ap two or three octaves at the point of the shift.  It sounds pretty silly at the time, but I dont think there are many better ways to improve a sense of geography at the keyboard.

Happy practicing! 

[Siberian Husky]

thanks guys i really appreciate the input..my only concern for this was my piano instructor at the jr college im attending really stresses the importance of mapping the keyboard and keeping focus on the score...

[kstrom]

This is one of my problems as well. I have been playing piano for about 9 years, and still I look at my hands quite often (especially my left hand). My teacher tells me to keep my eyes fixed on the the printed music while I play to correct this, but it's not one of my major problems so I tend not to worry about it.
---Just letting you know that It Happens to the best of us...hahahah.....

[berrt]

I was just about to post the same question as the siberian husky... reading the answers of xvimbi and the pianoman1984 both ways (looking and forcing the not-looking) eventually lead to the internal map?

The not-looking method maybe faster?

bye
Berrt

[pianomann1984]

I meant to say I am very keen on the finger-substitution method aswell, but ultimately, if you are working at speed, you dont necessarily have time to substitute.  I still have some geography problems and am a terrible stride-piano player!  But I would agree that it is always very useful to have 'a base to reach out from.'  Here's a thought...I am quickly coming to believe that playing the piano is as much a psychological process as a physiological one - so maybe if you can find 'common ground' between two hand positions (maybe similar hand shape/having similar notes covered by similar fingers), you can use that to help too.  But I think that going cold turkey on looking at the piano keys is probably more useful than weening yourself off.

[xvimbi]

I was just about to post the same question as the siberian husky... reading the answers of xvimbi and the pianoman1984 both ways (looking and forcing the not-looking) eventually lead to the internal map?

The not-looking method maybe faster?

I really don't think that's the issue here. I didn't really say whether "looking" is a better method to develop a keyboard map or whether it is "not-looking". I was saying that, because Siberian Husky has been playing for only 3-4 months, I don't think the keyboard map should be a primary focus FOR HIM/HER at this point. I don't think special attention should be paid to it. Other aspects should be at the forefront. This doesn't mean one must not work on it, but at this stage, it would, IMHO, complicate matters and would add an unnecessary layer of complexity onto something that is already complex enough.

Now, if we are talking about which method works better to develop a map, I would say the blindfolded approach. However, there are the usual advantages/disadvantages of practicing a skill in a isolated fashion (i.e. using exercises designed to advance a certain technical aspect). One does advance that particular skill, but little else. One could also learn all skills required at the same time through playing pieces, rather than spending time on purely technical exercises. That's a matter of personal preference.

In terms of developing a keyboard map, I would start practicing away from the piano with "exercises" like touching one's nose, toes, etc. in the dark, bringing fingertips together and the like or touching things in your surroundings. It doesn't have to be the piano. That is, in order to develop a keyboard map one must also develop an accurate body map to begin with. For clarification, a body map is the ability to accurately and precisely predict where any body part will end up in three-dimensional space when certain motions around certain joints are executed. Bernhard is a big proponent of juggling, which at the same time also develops coordination. It's an excellent suggestion.

[pianomann1984]

That is, in order to develop a keyboard map one must also develop an accurate body map to begin with.

That's a fascinating concept.  Did you, yourself learn by this method?  Also,

However, there are the usual advantages/disadvantages of practicing a skill in a isolated fashion (i.e. using exercises designed to advance a certain technical aspect). One does advance that particular skill, but little else. One could also learn all skills required at the same time through playing pieces, rather than spending time on purely technical exercises.

Why not combine the two...intelligently developing difficult passages in your repertoire into useful technical excersises that not only improve your technique, but also your undrstanding of the passages themselves - ultimately improving your performance aswell?

[xvimbi]

That's a fascinating concept.  Did you, yourself learn by this method?

To be very honest, I am not that good at it, i.e. I am still learning and will have to do so until the end of my days. I have come to recognize that a body map is so useful in many ways, not just for piano playing, but for any activity, that it is worth spending some time to acquire it. A keyboard map is really a specialized version of the body map. Because I believe that proper movements at the piano cannot be separated from proper movements during daily life, I just wanted to point out that if one wants to acquire a keyboard map, one might just as well do a thorough job. After all, hitting the right keys with closed eyes is in principle no different than typing, pressing buttons, catching balls and chopping onions without looking.

Why not combine the two...intelligently developing difficult passages in your repertoire into useful technical excersises that not only improve your technique, but also your undrstanding of the passages themselves - ultimately improving your performance aswell?

Yes, that would be perfect, and this is indeed my preferred method. If I wasn't that lazy, I would probably apply it more often

[pianomann1984]

After all, hitting the right keys with closed eyes is in principle no different than typing, pressing buttons, catching balls and chopping onions without looking.

That's very true.  I never thought of it that way.  Certainly worth looking into this further

Yes, that would be perfect, and this is indeed my preferred method. If I wasn't that lazy, I would probably apply it more often

Ah...do it aqll the time...it's what makes practice fun!   I dunno if I could get on with practice without all the games I play - reversing and muddling notes and rhythms to find out just how well I know the passages!  It sounds like a waste of time the way I put it, but it really is invaluable practice!

[aquariuswb]

Why would you want to cut onions without looking?

[xvimbi]

Why would you want to cut onions without looking?

Pretty much anybody who uses movements to do certain jobs sooner or later acquires the ability to do the most common tasks blindfolded. Chefs can chop pretty much anything without looking at their fingers. They look only when there are tricky spots - just like most pianists do. That way, they can keep an eye on the pasta, the steak or the sauce, take orders and pass orders on to their apprentices, etc. The same is true for taylors, surgeons, just about anybody, really. It simpy comes with the profession, and it allows for greater efficiency.

[abell88]

The same is true for taylors, surgeons, just about anybody, really. It simpy comes with the profession, and it allows for greater efficiency.

Surgeons??? Yikes!

[xvimbi]

Surgeons??? Yikes!

You'd be amazed how much they feel around without really knowing what they are poking into (liposuction anybody?). Ever tied a knot blindfolded? Well, OK, nurses and students do this nowadays. It's below a surgeon's pride to deal with simple things

[Brian Healey]

When you think about it, the piano is one of the only instruments where you can "see" what you're playing. Horn players cannot look at their hands (very easily anyway). If you're a string player, you hardly ever look at your hands, if at all. And so on.

There's definitely something to be said for playing without looking. As someone mentioned earlier, you simply can't became an above average sight reader if your hands don't instinctively know the keyboard's layout. There's nothing wrong with looking at your hands, but I believe that the less you "need" to, the better off you'll be. Especially if you're an improviser. When you're looking at your hands, your mind automatically seems to focus on what you SHOULD be playing (things you've practiced, "theoretical" notes that fit the situation, etc). Not looking while you play helps take your mind away from that and allows you to more easily convey the music inside of you. Just my $.02.


Go Red Sox!,
Bri