Marking up scores...

[pianomann1984]

I'm curious to see how much people tend to mark up their scores with fingerings/thoughts, and, if you do tend to smother your scores in pencil notes, why? 

I myself tend to put in little more than essential fingerings and initial ideas for sound and feeling that I can develop later.  I have some friends that religiously write nothing, and other's who, when they are finished, you can't see a note for graphite!  Please let me know because I'm interested in the thought processes that people go through when  they are studying music.

Thanks,

Chris 

[invisible]

I went through a phase of marking up my scores as though there were no tomorrow.  During this time, I essentially created my own way of deciphering what the score meant to me, as well as how I relate to it.  I would put fingerings, colors, a vertical line down every strong beat.  I would write in musical concepts, physical demands, emotional ideas, poetry.  Basically everything I could think of.  I treated the score as a sort of journal for myself that had no boundaries.

I still do some of these things.  I am pretty religious about fingerings and when working on contrapuntal works I find it helpful for me to use colors, at this point.

But, I began to realize that I was in essence only re-expressing everything the score was already plainly telling me.  As my ability to see that increases, my need for all the other marks decreases. 

sincerely,
invisible

[pianomann1984]

Heh...funny, that was pretty much my experience aswell.

[richard w]

Putting in fingering is a good idea, as if you put the piece to one side for a while you will save yourself the trouble of working it out again. More importantly, you will be able to re-ingrain previously ingrained hand movements, which should help to maintain reliable playing. I used to scribble big circles around problem notes, but I work rather differently now, putting the score aside (or at least looking away) as soon as possible. Such marks would be somewhat redundant, but in any case I try to avoid problem notes.  And as you say, although I'd not thought of it like this before, adding expression marks would just be duplicating what was already there. That said, perhaps in early music it would be worth making a note of what your interpretation brought to the music.


Richard.

[keys]

I never mark in fingering. I circle notes I want to bring out, analyze the music and label notes I play incorrectly. I mark up my score quite a bit; it helps me organize my thoughts. I wonder if I'm missing something with not marking in fingering? I've heard things about how different fingers produce different tones, and how mastering Chopin is all about the fingering. How do you determine the fingering?

[allchopin]

1) In books, I never make a mark.  Everything in a book, I feel, should be left as pristine as when it was bought.

2) On printed sheet music, markings are definitely helpful to recall aspects written down at the spur of the moment but not easily recalled from memory.  Also, if you put the piece away for ten years and come back to it, all your notes will seem new and interesting, and will be helpful to relearning it.

[Siberian Husky]

some pieces dont have fingerings already printed on the score for you to go about??...why?

sorry if this is a newb question

[Floristan]

some pieces dont have fingerings already printed on the score for you to go about??...why?

sorry if this is a newb question

Usually because they are urtext scores -- no editor between you and what the composer wrote.   Composers sometimes wrote in fingerings if they were extraordinarily unusual and intended for a specific tone or emphasis.  Bach urtext tends  to be without any markings other than phrasing and ornaments.  Sometimes an urtext score will come in two versions, one with and one without fingering.  The fingerings are always an editor's and invariably never fit my hand!

I mark up scores a lot with fingerings, circled notes, my own attention-getting devices like arrows and lines through the score marking breaks.  I write in harmonic analysis if it is useful in understanding modulations, to help me learn the piece and get a brain-ear connection going as well as the hand-ear connection.

[Siberian Husky]

doesnt that cause a set back in the learning process in the piece?..going through and making marking for fingerings?...or does one develope a certain skill after a while to improvise on fingerings when needed as once advances and gets used to mapping the keyboard?..or are there preset finger patterns for certain lengths or jumps you learn overtime?

[Siberian Husky]

by the way..sorry if im hijacking this post..i just have a few questions in regards to this..and i dont see it important enough to start a whole new thread on it

[pianomann1984]

some pieces dont have fingerings already printed on the score for you to go about??...why?

sorry if this is a newb question

It's not a newb question.  I know many accomplished pianists that still wouldn't be able to give you a good answer!  Generally, as Floristan says, Urtext scores tend not to have printed fingerings other than those that the composer provides (if he/she provides any at all).  The thing is everyone's hands are different and what I might find comfortable might be nigh impossible for someone with different length fingers, or a different span, so sometimes, even in edited scores, the editor is cautious with their fingerings as they may not be appropriate for many pianists.

doesnt that cause a set back in the learning process in the piece?..going through and making marking for fingerings?...or does one develope a certain skill after a while to improvise on fingerings when needed as once advances and gets used to mapping the keyboard?..or are there preset finger patterns for certain lengths or jumps you learn overtime?

There are no concrete rules for fingering.  Also, rather than being detremental to the learning process, for me, writing in my fingerings is still part of the learning process.  The generally accepted 'rules' for scalic fingering were laid down by CPE Bach in the 1700's, but I and many other pianists regularly break these rules, using what might be more awkward/unconventional fingerings to more easily generate specific phrasing or sound.  As my teacher often says - "Sometimes a bad fingering can be better for a performance than a good one!"  Improvising fingerings is never a good idea - any degree of uncertainty during a performance is a potential liability.  Keyboard mapping is helpful, but all of the fingerings I come to are always carefully considered - often I will try several different fingerings before reaching the right one, which I may still change if I find a better one.  In terms of marking scores, I find myself doing it less and less, but I am still trying to find the right level.  Having marks gives me a sense of security, having a concrete path laid out that can guide me through the peice until I can memorise it - it's a lot of information to take in after all!  Shura Cherkassky was notorious for keeping all of his scores 'virgin' with not a mark in sight, but I have tried this myself, and it makes me feel very insecure!

[Egghead]

I went through a phase of marking up my scores as though there were no tomorrow.  During this time, I essentially created my own way of deciphering what the score meant to me, as well as how I relate to it.  I would put fingerings, colors, a vertical line down every strong beat.  I would write in musical concepts, physical demands, emotional ideas, poetry.  Basically everything I could think of.  I treated the score as a sort of journal for myself that had no boundaries.

I still do some of these things.  I am pretty religious about fingerings and when working on contrapuntal works I find it helpful for me to use colors, at this point.

But, I began to realize that I was in essence only re-expressing everything the score was already plainly telling me.  As my ability to see that increases, my need for all the other marks decreases. 

sincerely,
invisible

this is very interesting - I often mark things in my scores so much that I have made several photocopies to mark in different TYPES of things in different copies - fingering, pedal marks, details of dynamics in the one used in lessons and "during playing" to check stuff; coloured sections and even chord symbols to highlight structure in a separate copy to look at the score away from the piano; current problem areas highlighted in a "throw-away" copy to help me focus on the areas that need work; the latter can include writing in the dynamics from memory.

It seems to me the process of writing something in is about as important as having the information recorded somewhere.

In the master copy used in lessons I occasionally want to write thigns in that are - infuriatingly  - there already... playing mostly from memory I find it difficult to absorb all the information present in the printed score. So I look forward to the time when writing in so much wont be necessary anymore...

I have wondered about a notation for writing in HAND MOVEMENTS (for example: towards keyboard, towards body) - does this exist?

Kind regards,
Egghead

[ShiroKuro]

I often copy the music so that I can keep a pristine copy, and I always use pencil so it's erasable.

I often write in fingering, more or less depending on the complexity of the piece, and whether I am likely to unconsciously change the fingering. If I write in fingering, I tend not to erase it unless I only wrote it in to help me in linking sections.

I may write in comments my teacher makes or suggestions etc, but I don't have her write on my score. I once took a few months of lessons from the school's head teacher, and she wrote all over my scores in red pencil, which I hated because it's not erasable!

I sometimes add directions for expression or other playing directions, and I will circle a note I've played wrong. If there's a section I want to work on esp, I'll write a star there. 

In analyzing the piece, if there's a repeating theme, I'll write A, and maybe A1, A2  for variations on that theme, and then B for other parts etc. Then, if the theme appears again at the end, although the music might say C or G or whatever, I'll write A1 (A2 whichever).

If I do analyzing where I use color or highlighter or cut the score up, I make a copy (of course!) and tend not to play from the colorful copy after I finish all the analyzing that I want to do.

Also, I practice by breaking the piece up into small sections, so at the beginning when I'm first working on a piece, I have all kinds of vertical and slanted lines to let me know the beginning and end of sections I've choosen, and also where those sections overlap. I tend to erase these lines as I work through the piece.

As I said, I use pencil, so in the middle of the practice phase (in-progress), there will be more markings than at the end when I'm ready to move the piece from "in-progress" to "repertoire."