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Topic: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!  (Read 8515 times)

Offline abell88

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Re: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!
Reply #50 on: May 03, 2005, 11:51:01 AM
My husband -- who is not a pianist -- walked by while I was playing the video and wanted to know what it was...when I told him it was about TO and TU (never previously discussed with him) he took a quick look and  said, "Oh, he's not moving the thumb at all, just using wrist rotation."  So I'd say it came through pretty clearly! Thanks, CC.

Offline janice

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Re: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!
Reply #51 on: May 03, 2005, 05:33:13 PM
I thougt TO is one of the easiest pianistic technique to describe with words, because the motions involved are very simple. I'll try: With your right hand, play CDEFG, then lift your hand, move it as a whole upwards, drop it down so that the thumb is now on the following A and play ABCDE. This is "thumb-over", which is a misnomer and actually means "no thumb-under". In scale playing, one of course plays CDE - lift - FGABC, etc.

Now the shocker: there will be a gap! One can't play legato with the TO technique. Perhaps, that is the confusion. However, at fast speeds or when using the pedal, and with some refinement of the motions, the gap will be practically inaudible.
Xvimbi, THANK YOUso much for spelling this out!!  I was not able to understand "thumb over" when I first read about it here at PF, so everytime someone mentioned "thumb over" I basically ignored the post and didn't read it.  I think it is because the term "thumb over" just bugs the heck out of me because it isn't humanly possible, nor gramatically correct--lol.  Dumb reason to ignore it, but it just gets under my skin!  ;D  But now I understand it!!!  Thanks a ton, Xvimbi! :-*
Co-president of the Bernhard fan club!

Offline CC

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Re: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!
Reply #52 on: May 04, 2005, 03:44:59 AM
Yes, the .MP4 is (Apple?)'s Quicktime.  I used probably the latest version so those with old quicktime will need to download a update, which is often not available during busy hours.  Unfortunately, this internet video business has branched into too many formats, some of which are incompatible, especially between apple and windows.

I have decided to acquire video processing software.  My understanding was that for windows DV Studio from Pinnacle was the gold standard -- is this true, or is ImTOO a better product?  I am also on the verge of buying an apple laptop, but for video for my book, apple products are not always friendly to the huge population of windows computers, so I should probably stick with windows.  Any inputs would be appreciated.  Those who could not access the videos, please let me know so I have some idea of the extent of the problem.

OK, OK. I FINALLY got the message:  I WILL CHANGE OVER FROM TO to TU (THUMB HOP)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lots of people do not like TO and so far, nobody really liked it. So the message seems clear.  That's one of my strengths  --  as soon as I discover or understand a mistake, I correct it, instead of stubbornly defending it.  My detractors hate that, because they quickly run out of mistakes to criticize.
C.C.Chang; my home page:

 https://www.pianopractice.org/

Offline janice

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Re: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!
Reply #53 on: May 04, 2005, 04:14:46 AM


OK, OK. I FINALLY got the message:  I WILL CHANGE OVER FROM TO to TU (THUMB HOP)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Awwww CC, don't be hurt because I said that the term "thumb over" bugged me!  I didn't realize that you "invented" that term.  I was basically saying that I have ignored posts about "thumb over" until today, when it finally "clicked".  :-*
Co-president of the Bernhard fan club!

Offline bardolph

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Re: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!
Reply #54 on: May 04, 2005, 05:30:22 AM
According to the introduction to my Penguin Classics edition of Julius Caesar's "Conquest of Gaul", one of Caesar's many strengths was his ability to recognize and swiftly extricate himself from errors :)

Offline xvimbi

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Re: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!
Reply #55 on: May 04, 2005, 01:06:31 PM
Yes, the .MP4 is (Apple?)'s Quicktime.  I used probably the latest version so those with old quicktime will need to download a update, which is often not available during busy hours.  Unfortunately, this internet video business has branched into too many formats, some of which are incompatible, especially between apple and windows.

I have decided to acquire video processing software.  My understanding was that for windows DV Studio from Pinnacle was the gold standard -- is this true, or is ImTOO a better product?  I am also on the verge of buying an apple laptop, but for video for my book, apple products are not always friendly to the huge population of windows computers, so I should probably stick with windows.  Any inputs would be appreciated.  Those who could not access the videos, please let me know so I have some idea of the extent of the problem.

Quicktime has been one of the "standards" that both platforms are very happy with. Incidentally, it's from Apple. So, when you buy an Apple laptop, get Quicktime Pro with it (an extra $20 or so). It gives you access to various formats. If you switch to a format that is a standard on Windows, you will most likely lose Apple users.

You don't need to get any video processing software, because, when you buy an Apple laptop, you will get extremely powerful video editing software for free: iPhoto, iMovie and iDVD are almost professional programs. Most modern cameras communicate directly with iMovie through Firewire or USB. Microphones as well. And even Apple's little iSight camera can be used to make good looking viedos. All this software allows you to write out videos in Windows-compatible formats. Check it out first, before you spend a lot of $$$ on a Windows product. There are also a lot of books available on these topics. An evening at a bookstore with a good cup of tea is all you need to orient yourself. Apples are now geared towards home-movie making, so that is all you should ever need.


Quote
OK, OK. I FINALLY got the message:  I WILL CHANGE OVER FROM TO to TU (THUMB HOP)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lots of people do not like TO and so far, nobody really liked it. So the message seems clear.  That's one of my strengths  --  as soon as I discover or understand a mistake, I correct it, instead of stubbornly defending it.  My detractors hate that, because they quickly run out of mistakes to criticize.

I personally don't like "Thumb hop". It sounds, ehem, a bit childish. I don't think "TO" is a bad term. Science is full of misnomers. Misnomers usually cause a lot of discussion and reflection. People usually end up knowing more about them than if a familiar term was used to begin with. If a new term must be invented (I can't believe the hundreds of years of piano playing havn't produced one), I would suggets something like "Continuous hand displacement", or simply "hand displacement", or "non-TU". We need a poll ;)

By the way, I think the term "phase angle" needs to go too  ;)

Offline bardolph

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Re: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!
Reply #56 on: May 04, 2005, 01:29:54 PM
I agree, "phase angle" must make sense only to other piano-physicists :)

As for video formats, Microsoft makes "Windows Media Player for Macintosh." Therefore, probably the best solution is to make videos in "x.WMV" format (Windows Media Video), as these are instantly playable on every Windows system in the world, and on every Mac system once they've downloaded the free WM for Mac player (https://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/software/Macintosh/osx/default.aspx ). You can't please everyone so you might as well take care of the vast majority (Windows users) at one blow.

There are loads of freeware or very inexpensive video tools for Windows, do a Google ... the demo I used to make several test conversions of Chang's TO video is called ImTOO MPEG Encoder and costs only $35 for the unlimited version, for example.


Offline xvimbi

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Re: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!
Reply #57 on: May 04, 2005, 01:54:49 PM
You can't please everyone so you might as well take care of the vast majority (Windows users) at one blow.

:( :( :( :( I will need to play by myself then. :( :( :( :(

Offline bardolph

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Re: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!
Reply #58 on: May 04, 2005, 02:34:39 PM
At least you can take consolation in the fact that you're a member of the smaller group that uses a superior product!

Offline janice

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Re: "Thumb Over" -- would someone PLEASE FILM!!!
Reply #59 on: May 04, 2005, 04:02:21 PM
CC--my apologies for having a little "pet peeve" about the TO thing.  Please continue to use that term, because so many are used to it.  THANK YOU so much for helping so many of us!!  :-*
Co-president of the Bernhard fan club!
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