the thumb over method of playing

[Davek]

:)i have no idea what this is but i was reading this article online and thet said that it is better to use the thumb over method when playing fast scales. i was wondering if someone could help me with this, because it seems that teachers don't teach this method.?  

[chopinetta]

can you give us the link of the online article you mentioned?

[ned]

Thumb over is also discussed by Chuan Chang in his book "Fundamentals of Piano Practice" a lot of which is on the Web. Use key words in a search engine like Google and you'll find.   Lots of good info. Discussion of the Fantaisie Impromptu. Very good chapter on preparing for recitals.
You probably already do "thumb over" sometimes without being aware.
Ned

[10Fingers]

take the C-major scale for instance:

                    C D E F G A H C

Fingering:      1 2 3 1 2 3 4 1

Normally, you would pass the thumb under the third and forth finger.
That's called the Thumb Under Method.

If you want to play it with the Thumb Over Method you must put your thumb over these fingers. The serect is, that you must take the third and forth finger off the key very fast in order to make the gap so small that one can't hear it. Pretty hard, isn't it?   Some teacher don't even know about that thing.


I've read Changs book years ago and it was quite helpful in general. But as for playing scales, I must say that I was rather disappointed. He only focused on the TOM and made no explainations how to play scales with the TUM.
However, I don't agree with Chang that you should always use the TOM unless the TUM brings better results ... I must say, that in all cases I could play fast scales with TUM much better! I asked my teacher and she sais you don't really need the TOM but it would be sometimes useful as it bewares your thumb muscles from strain while playing huge scales.
The only pieces where I use TOM (just for practise) is Schubert's Impromptu op. 90 no. 2 and Rimsky-Korsakov's Bumblebee.

regards,

Thi  

[Davek]

thanks because that article had me thinking that i had to learn, i still will learn it but i personaly think that tu method is good and i can play scales fast (finally) thanks

[dj]

wow this is really interesting, i've never heard anything about a thumb over method. i just alwaysed used TUM...well given that im learning that same schubert impromptu, i'll have 2 try it sometime.

[10Fingers]

There's a discussion about the same topic here, just stick around.
Well, that method ist quite helpful if you want to play fast scales, but you won't need it for beginner or intermediate pieces, but it's worth learning because I think that everyone of you wants to tackle beautiful repertoire that needs a certain technique. Yes Dave, start leanring it, the earlier the better!

regards,

Thi

[Davek]

thanks thi and i already have started  

[chopinetta]

that sounds pretty hard. i always use the TUM... okay, thanks for introducing this method!!

[amee]

Yeah, same here!

[JTownley]

Currently I'm preparing the Chopin Prelude #16 (b-flat minor) for video. I have to play it at high speed and there is one passage that , except for the thumb-over method (not to mention this $%^&* R.H. forefinger of mine, which doesn't help matters!) , I'd never be able to pull it off, Those of you familiar w/ the piece check the 36th measure: R.H. c-dflat-eflat-f-gflat-c-bflat-c. Now, normally you'd finger this 1-2-3-1(thumb under to strike f)-2-5-4-1. In my case, however, having a bum second finger, I cannot do this. I must do 1-3-4-5-1(thumb over 5 to strike gflat)-5-etc. Having gotten used to relying on little tricks like these, I've managed (on good days) to get the Prelude nearly up to Argerich's tempo. The acid test will come when I commit to video. You'll all either be very impressed or laughing so hard you'll bust a gut. The thumb over method was first demonstrated to me by my teacher, Earle Voorhies many moons ago when I was a little "thang" working on the "Winter Wind". Thumb over is an absolute "Must" for some of those R.H. arpeggios.  
https://www.JoeTownley.com   Lots of (a few) good videos & (mostly) bad videos!

[chopinetta]

THOSE WERE ALL GOOD VIDEOS JOE!!! i hope you're getting well with your prelude. i am very much excited!!!

[JTownley]

It's coming along, Chopinetta. To test how prepared I am to tape the Prelude, I often make myself concentrate on anything BUT the music while playing it.  The trick is to know a piece SO well that you can play it while thinking about the man in the moon, your favorite movie (or even a romantic moment with the one you love!). Let that be your test. Until you can do that, Chopinetta, don't attempt to play a difficult piece in public because you still don't know it well enough. A "trick of the trade" as they say.  
Joe

[chopinetta]

wow! goodie-good! i'm really really really excited!

i'll take your word for it. raindrop was easy, so it wasn't a hard job playing it in public. my waltz in e minor was quite challenging, so I wasn't able to play it perfectly when i had to do it in front of the whole school...