If they're not piano concerti, what are they?

[theodopolis]

Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue
Franck - Symphonic Variations
Rachmaninoff - Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini
Liszt - Totentanz

These are just a few of those single movement works for piano & orchestra lasting 15-20 mins.

They don't fit the piano concerto definition, but is there another name for these types of composition? Some fancy Italian term, perhaps?

Thanks
Theodopolis

[hodi]

i would call it a symphonic poem with piano

[Goldberg]

I call them Concert Pieces, in general.

[sharon_f]

All of the above pieces are concertos. As is Mendelssohn's Capriiccio Brilliant and Chopin's variations on "La Ci Darem La Mano" and Weber's Konzertstucke, etc, etc. They just aren't titled concertos.

The dictionary definitions is: "A musical work for solo instrument or instruments and orchestra, typically in three movements.

[etudes]

piece for piano with orchestra (so that is concerto in the sense of the world as Sharon said)

[klavierkonzerte]

konzertstuck

[sharon_f]

And then there are pieces titled concertos that are not, such as:

Bach Italian Concerto
Schumann: Concerto sans Orchestra
Alkan: Concerto for Solo Piano

[Waldszenen]

And then there are pieces titled concertos that are not, such as:

Bach Italian Concerto
Schumann: Concerto sans Orchestra
Alkan: Concerto for Solo Piano

FYI Schumann wrote two of them - Introduction and Allegro, and Introduction and Allegro Appassionato. Both of them very cool pieces.

[sharon_f]

FYI Schumann wrote two of them - Introduction and Allegro, and Introduction and Allegro Appassionato. Both of them very cool pieces.

And since they are both for solo instrument and orchestra they are concertos (small "c") by definition. And, you're right. They are both very cool pieces and very unfairly neglected.

[Rach3]

There are also the concerti grossi, which are a baroque excuse for having concertos without a soloist. I'm not sure if the Italian concerto gets excused for using a different, baroque meaning for the word... Okay now I'm confused, the Brandenburg concerti have multiple soloists each, so are they proper conceri grossi or regular (aria-tic) concerti?

Regarding the list we are compiling (of psuedoconcertos), add the Chopin Andante Spinato & Grande Polonaise, and the Liszt Hungarian fantasy.

Another thing - the Alkan concerto for solo piano isn't a concerto in either sense of the word (baroque or otherwise).

[apion]

Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue
Franck - Symphonic Variations
Rachmaninoff - Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini
Liszt - Totentanz

A piano concerto is a work that contrasts and exploits the SOLO PIANO viz. ORCHESTRA.  It doesn't matter whether the work is in "sonata" form.  It doesn't matter how many movements.  It doesn't matter if the work is structured as "theme and variations" or as a "Rhapsody." 

All of the above works are definitely full-blown piano concertos.  No doubt.

It just so happens that the grandfathers of the keyboard concerto (Bach and Mozart) relied singularly upon the 3 movement format ....... but BIG F##ING SH#T.  We're in the 21st Century.  Dude. 

[Rach3]

but BIG F##ING SH#T.  We're in the 21st Century.  Dude.  Kiss

Lucky you... I'm still stuck here in the early 19th...